Falcon as a reserve??

[tsalnukt 1]

I just got a rig to repack and the reserve is a Falcon 215. I have never heard of a falcon as a reserve and I was just wondering if anyone has ever packed a falcon as a reserve and if it is ok or not. Thanks.

PS - i would have called precision but today is saturday and they aren't open.

[GLIDEANGLE 1]

http://www.precision.aero/falcon-9.htm

Doesn't the canopy label have the TSO info on it?

The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others!

[tsalnukt 1]

Yes it does. I just wanted to double double check before I packed it. thanks

[PeteS 0]

I've seen a couple of them. As long as it was not ever used as a main, it's okay.

[riggerrob 643]

Fslcons were originally certified as reserve, back during the earl 1980s.
As long as that Falcon canopy has only a few jumps, it is perfectly legal to re-pack as a reserve.
Just remind the owner not to exceed wing-loadings of one pound per square foot.

[fcajump 164]

Geeze, I hope so... All 3 of my reserve rides were on Falcon's.

TSO lable intact?
Few/no jumps?
Airworthy by inspection?
AD/SB check (don't know of any, but you should check)

Blue Skies,
JW

Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

[hackish 8]

I too have packed a couple of Falcons a few times. It seems that these oddball canopies crop up in bunches. If I had to guess years ago one jumper bought one and convinced a number of others at the DZ to do the same. Sometimes I do wish older gear would be retired.

-Michael

[RiggerLee 61]

I've never acually seen one packed as a reserve but what's wrong with it? It's just a bit bulkier but older gear is often sized more appropreitly any way. If it's in good condition I see nothing wrong with "older gear". We jumped the hell out of it in it's day and it's perfectly good for what it is.

Lee

Lee
lee@velocitysportswear.com
www.velocitysportswear.com

[5.samadhi 0]

why jump older gear when you can get a new reserve for a little over 1 grand

and a used reserve for 500

[stratostar 5]

Because the shit still works just fine that is why! Why go spend a grand on a new reserve when I have a new one, only it's 15 yrs old and a few other that are anywhere from 25 to 40 yrs old.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[riggerrob 643]

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Because the shit still works just fine that is why! Why go spend a grand on a new reserve when I have a new one, only it's 15 yrs old and a few other that are anywhere from 25 to 40 yrs old.

.........................................................................

Old (lightly-used) gear works great with older jumpers and older riggers, because they understand the limitations (e.g.don't load more than 1:1) and know how to fly it.

The danger crops up when young skydivers try to load old reserves at 2:1 and wonder why they break so many bones.
DOUGH!

[5.samadhi 0]

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Because the shit still works just fine that is why! Why go spend a grand on a new reserve when I have a new one, only it's 15 yrs old and a few other that are anywhere from 25 to 40 yrs old.

.........................................................................

Old (lightly-used) gear works great with older jumpers and older riggers, because they understand the limitations (e.g.don't load more than 1:1) and know how to fly it.

The danger crops up when young skydivers try to load old reserves at 2:1 and wonder why they break so many bones.
DOUGH!

so you're saying a falcon reserve is just as good as a PD optimum reserve? I think the latter is stronger and flares better and flies better but what do I know I started skydiving in the 2000s

[stratostar 5]

You can think what you want, I bet Red @ FCI would disagree with you on many levels to your statements and have the data to back it up, maybe you should call him up and ask him. But what does he know he has only been building, testing and designing parachutes now for like 30 yrs or so now.

Would you say my 1993 PD 176-r is not as good as 2012 176PDR? I say bullshit!

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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Because the shit still works just fine that is why! Why go spend a grand on a new reserve when I have a new one, only it's 15 yrs old and a few other that are anywhere from 25 to 40 yrs old.

.........................................................................

Old (lightly-used) gear works great with older jumpers and older riggers, because they understand the limitations (e.g.don't load more than 1:1) and know how to fly it.

The danger crops up when young skydivers try to load old reserves at 2:1 and wonder why they break so many bones.
DOUGH!

so you're saying a falcon reserve is just as good as a PD optimum reserve?

For all practical purposes provided that you have a light wing loading, don't do anything likely to cause an over-speed deployment (no freefly, no Cypres which might fire if you get knocked out and then fall head down), and don't care about container size.

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I think the latter is stronger and flares better and flies better but what do I know I started skydiving in the 2000s

That's nice but doesn't necessarily mean it does a better job saving your life.

My Super Raven II (prehistoric by new jumper standards) and Tempo (not reinforced) both worked well enough when I needed them.

That said if you're going to freefly or have an AAD you want a modern reserve with span-wise reinforcing tapes. I watched a guy spiral in under a reserve with one reinforcing tape at the tail connecting 2 and 5 cell chunks after he got knocked out on an AFF jump, was last seen falling head-first at a high rate of speed, and was saved by a Cypres fire falling at faster than belly speeds.

If not the old designs are fine. I don't think anything of the Raven in my accuracy rig - if needed it'll get me to a safe landing just like an Optimum. Unlike the Optimum it's paid for and came in a $700 package deal with the container as opposed to costing $1000+ alone. That makes it _much_ better than the newer reserve.

[RiggerLee 61]

Actually falcons were good flying canopies. People today tend to talk a little trash about the older f-111 canopies but there really wasn't any thing wrong with the later designs, falcons and PD's among them. Keep in mind that a PD reserve is from the exact same era and no body talks shit about them. Falcons if any thing have an advantage over a PD or optimum in that they are nine cells and have a higher aspect ratio. The bigest limitation on wing loading is the increase in porosity over time. We tended to jump them large because at 600 jumps on the canopy you didn't really want to be jumping it at over 1:1. F-111, call it 0-3 if you like, is very tight when it's new and flyes quite well.

Don't get me wrong. I don't want to say that there hasn't been evelution over the years but I don't understand the fear that some people have of older gear.

as to wing loading. I don't think you need to be loading an optimum at 2:1. I'm a vocal proponent of people jumping bigger reserves to beguin with. And lets not forget the basic idea behind the optimum. That you could put a larger reserve in your existing container. The very concept was to allow you to jump a LOWER wing loading then you were curently jumping which frankly I thought was great.

Lee

Lee
lee@velocitysportswear.com
www.velocitysportswear.com

[mjosparky 4]

  Quote

so you're saying a falcon reserve is just as good as a PD optimum reserve? I think the latter is stronger and flares better and flies better but what do I know I started skydiving in the 2000s

How many jumps do you have on any kind of reserve? I would say you are just parroting what you have heard and don’t shit about which reserve canopies fly better or land better. If you are going to make claims have something to back it up.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[diablopilot 2]

+1

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[5.samadhi 0]

1 jump on a microraven 120

a few jumps on an older PD

and a few jumps on an optimum

but hey lets let your personal attack flyyyyyyy feels good man

edit oh yeah and about 25 jumps on a falcon (as a main!)

edit also I have experience on other 7 cells Atair Troll MDV 205 and Basic Research Fox Vtec 225 and also triathalon 135 so I have a pretty good bearing on how a good 7 cell should fly/control itself in brakes, etc.

but what do I know

[mjosparky 4]

  Quote

1 jump on a microraven 120

a few jumps on an older PD

and a few jumps on an optimum

but hey lets let your personal attack flyyyyyyy feels good man

edit oh yeah and about 25 jumps on a falcon (as a main!)

edit also I have experience on other 7 cells Atair Troll MDV 205 and Basic Research Fox Vtec 225 and also triathalon 135 so I have a pretty good bearing on how a good 7 cell should fly/control itself in brakes, etc.

but what do I know

Seems like quite a few reserve rides for 300 jumps.

If you felt that was a PA you need to toughen up cupcake. From your choice of canopies all I can say is good luck.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[5.samadhi 0]

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1 jump on a microraven 120

a few jumps on an older PD

and a few jumps on an optimum

but hey lets let your personal attack flyyyyyyy feels good man

edit oh yeah and about 25 jumps on a falcon (as a main!)

edit also I have experience on other 7 cells Atair Troll MDV 205 and Basic Research Fox Vtec 225 and also triathalon 135 so I have a pretty good bearing on how a good 7 cell should fly/control itself in brakes, etc.

but what do I know

Seems like quite a few reserve rides for 300 jumps.

If you felt that was a PA you need to toughen up cupcake. From your choice of canopies all I can say is good luck.

Sparky

you know you can fly reserves as mains right
I only have one reserve ride (the microraven).

what about my choice of canopies? I fly a troll loaded at .75 and a stiletto loaded at 1.15

radical!!!

[-ftp- 0]

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Seems like quite a few reserve rides for 300 jumps.

If you felt that was a PA you need to toughen up cupcake. From your choice of canopies all I can say is good luck.

Sparky

Do you know you can demo reserves now-a-days? yeah, in fact sometimes the manufactures come to your DZ and set up a tent an everything. You can try your reserve before you buy it, pretty cool.

[mjosparky 4]

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Seems like quite a few reserve rides for 300 jumps.

If you felt that was a PA you need to toughen up cupcake. From your choice of canopies all I can say is good luck.

Sparky

Do you know you can demo reserves now-a-days? yeah, in fact sometimes the manufactures come to your DZ and set up a tent an everything. You can try your reserve before you buy it, pretty cool.

Yea I know that but if you notice he didn't say he demoed anydthing.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[stratostar 5]

And the two you know your talking to one of the people who has done a lot test jumping a great deal of the stuff and has conducted many drop tests, right.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[-ftp- 0]

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And the two you know your talking to one of the people who has done a lot test jumping a great deal of the stuff and has conducted many drop tests, right.

Didn't know that, pretty cool.

But what does that have to do with it?

[padalcek 9]

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And lets not forget the basic idea behind the optimum. That you could put a larger reserve in your existing container. The very concept was to allow you to jump a LOWER wing loading then you were curently jumping which frankly I thought was great.

But, to no ones surprise really, it ended up as "hey, I can get same canopies in an even smaller container now".

Padalcek - CCO, HF-17
http://www.theflyinghellfish.com
I'm not a real skydiver - but I do play one on dz.com.