alpha 0 #1 February 16, 2003 This is beautiful! ------------------------------ Patience with my neighbours, Mr Bush Terry Jones Sunday January 26, 2003 The Observer I'm really excited by George Bush's latest reason for bombing Iraq: he's running out of patience. And so am I! For some time now I've been really pissed off with Mr Johnson, who lives a couple of doors down the street. Well, him and Mr Patel, who runs the health food shop. They both give me queer looks, and I'm sure Mr Johnson is planning something nasty for me, but so far I haven't been able to discover what. I've been round to his place a few times to see what he's up to, but he's got everything well hidden. That's how devious he is. As for Mr Patel, don't ask me how I know, I just know - from very good sources - that he is, in reality, a Mass Murderer. I have leafleted the street telling them that if we don't act first, he'll pick us off one by one. Some of my neighbours say, if I've got proof, why don't I go to the police? But that's simply ridiculous. The police will say that they need evidence of a crime with which to charge my neighbours. They'll come up with endless red tape and quibbling about the rights and wrongs of a pre-emptive strike and all the while Mr Johnson will be finalising his plans to do terrible things to me, while Mr Patel will be secretly murdering people. Since I'm the only one in the street with a decent range of automatic firearms, I reckon it's up to me to keep the peace. But until recently that's been a little difficult. Now, however, George W. Bush has made it clear that all I need to do is run out of patience, and then I can wade in and do whatever I want! And let's face it, Mr Bush's carefully thought-out policy towards Iraq is the only way to bring about international peace and security. The one certain way to stop Muslim fundamentalist suicide bombers targeting the US or the UK is to bomb a few Muslim countries that have never threatened us. That's why I want to blow up Mr Johnson's garage and kill his wife and children. Strike first! That'll teach him a lesson. Then he'll leave us in peace and stop peering at me in that totally unacceptable way. Mr Bush makes it clear that all he needs to know before bombing Iraq is that Saddam is a really nasty man and that he has weapons of mass destruction - even if no one can find them. I'm certain I've just as much justification for killing Mr Johnson's wife and children as Mr Bush has for bombing Iraq. Mr Bush's long-term aim is to make the world a safer place by eliminating 'rogue states' and 'terrorism'. It's such a clever long-term aim because how can you ever know when you've achieved it? How will Mr Bush know when he's wiped out all terrorists? When every single terrorist is dead? But then a terrorist is only a terrorist once he's committed an act of terror. What about would-be terrorists? These are the ones you really want to eliminate, since most of the known terrorists, being suicide bombers, have already eliminated themselves. Perhaps Mr Bush needs to wipe out everyone who could possibly be a future terrorist? Maybe he can't be sure he's achieved his objective until every Muslim fundamentalist is dead? But then some moderate Muslims might convert to fundamentalism. Maybe the only really safe thing to do would be for Mr Bush to eliminate all Muslims? It's the same in my street. Mr Johnson and Mr Patel are just the tip of the iceberg. There are dozens of other people in the street who I don't like and who - quite frankly - look at me in odd ways. No one will be really safe until I've wiped them all out. My wife says I might be going too far but I tell her I'm simply using the same logic as the President of the United States. That shuts her up. Like Mr Bush, I've run out of patience, and if that's a good enough reason for the President, it's good enough for me. I'm going to give the whole street two weeks - no, 10 days - to come out in the open and hand over all aliens and interplanetary hijackers, galactic outlaws and interstellar terrorist masterminds, and if they don't hand them over nicely and say 'Thank you', I'm going to bomb the entire street to kingdom come. It's just as sane as what George W. Bush is proposing - and, in contrast to what he's intending, my policy will destroy only one street. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zinger 0 #2 February 16, 2003 I would much rather be a neighbor with G.W. Bush then a neighbor of Saddam Hussein or any of his offspring and that is a fact. ------Have a good one!-------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #3 February 16, 2003 Why is it beautiful.. Sounds lame to me? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CrazyIvan 0 #4 February 16, 2003 WTF?__________________________________________ Blue Skies and May the Force be with you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dirtsucks 0 #5 February 16, 2003 WHATEVER DUDE!!!!!!! I think I'm dumb, I think I'm dumb, I think I'm dumb... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skycop 0 #6 February 16, 2003 Another well articulated point from our friends on the left. One suggestion, MOVE OUT OF THE WAY AND LET THE GROWN-UPS LEAD!!!! There is a poster on the front page of this website, www.usafammo.com (non-clicky) not logic, just fun! that sums it all up! Peace Out! Jim "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alpha 0 #7 February 16, 2003 I thought it was beautiful because it effectively argued a very important point... We should be very careful how we carry ourselves now. We should analyze how are we perceived in the world. What goes around comes around. You think US'd would be the lone super power 10, 20, 50 years from now? It did atleast shut some people up here! Hard to argue this logic. Now can someone explain why did it seem so lame to them? Was it too hard to understand? -alphadog Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skycop 0 #8 February 16, 2003 Hard to argue this logic? Hard to understand? Hmm.........if you think this is logic, I'd love to sell ya some swamp land in Florida! This stuff reminds me of the "See Spot Run" books I love so much! "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alpha 0 #9 February 16, 2003 I'd like to make an offer on that swamp land. How much did it cost you? What did NOT make sense to you anyway? Argue the point NOT hide behind stupid comments. -alphadog Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #10 February 16, 2003 QuoteIt did atleast shut some people up here! Didn't shut us up...we're just more in tune with the fact that neighborhood rules do not apply to geopolitics and visa-versa.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alpha 0 #11 February 16, 2003 Now we're talking... So you are saying that the article makes logical sense except that logic does not apply to countries. That is an interesting point-of-view. By that assertion Iraq was right to occupy Kuwait. Soviets didnt do anything wrong in attacking Afghanistan. We're talking might is right here. Maybe Germans weren't so wrong in taking over half of Europe and more. They had the firepower ... french and brits were unfair (treaty of versailles), Stalin asked for it, jews were a nuisance and in the end they were a dominant race just like Americans are the dominant nation right now. Get real! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #12 February 16, 2003 QuoteWTF? PLEASE PLEASE don't tell me I need to explain why this is ignorant and not even in the same realm of logic as the situation as Iraq. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skycop 0 #13 February 16, 2003 If you try to explain, you're called stupid. It's the typical "I can shout you down" debate style. I prefer sarcasm because it's much more fun! Everytime I try to debate someone with these views the facts really don't matter. The situation will be twisted and the mind shut to any other point of view. The moral equivalent run wild! This is very complex, and not nearly as simple as this article would like it to be. As far as swamp land in Florida, I really wish I had some!! With the weather here the way it is, at least I'd be warm!!! Blue Skies! "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DivaSkyChick 0 #14 February 16, 2003 LOL There is definitely a commitment to Bush on this forum. I hope everyone remembers that one of the responsibilities of people in a democracy is to question your representatives - following your leaders blindly might seem patriotic but it's not. Most of you who support Bush also support the NRA. You support the right to bear arms to protect yourself, at least as far as the constitution is concerned, from your own government should it cease to be run democratically. How will you know if you don't ask questions??? The parody that Alpha posted was meant to help us look at the subject from another perspective. It's important to try to do that. Don't you think? --- www.facebook.com/mandyhamptonfitch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skycop 0 #15 February 16, 2003 Thanks for making my point! WTF does the NRA have to do with any of the stuff covered in this thread? Classic "bait and switch" so to speak. I do support the president at this point in time BUT, only after taking many things into consideration, doing my homework, and looking at historical facts. Not just bitching for the sake of bitching and basing my views on emotion. IMHO Blue Skies "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alpha 0 #16 February 16, 2003 PLEASE PLEASE don't tell me I need to explain why this is ignorant and not even in the same realm of logic as the situation as Iraq. You cannot explain because you don't understand it or else you would have tried. PLEASE PLEASE explain why this is ignorant and not even in the same realm of logic as the situation as Iraq !?!? ... mind being shut to any other point of view. Hardly the case... I'm searcing for a point of view that proves me wrong but so far no one seems to be able to justify a war based on facts. They just know it is complex and justified. If you try to explain, you're called stupid. You did NOT try to debate anything. You just tried to sell some swamp land which was deemed stupid. I apologize if that caused any distress! The simple fact is that we're brought up to not question anything that the govt does (except for when the body bags coming back home... NAM). 911 was uncalled for but in the end it was a result of our govt's actions. What we cant defend we call complex and go back to our lives. What this redneck leading us does right now will come back and effect us in big ways later. -alphadog Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DivaSkyChick 0 #17 February 16, 2003 QuoteThanks for making my point! WTF does the NRA have to do with any of the stuff covered in this thread? Classic "bait and switch" so to speak. Second time I have to ask this of someone here today - Are you kidding me? You honestly are going to pick that out of my post to argue with? LOL Talk about bait and switch! But seriously, I'm glad you're basing your opinion on your research. I have no problem with your view at all, just with people who hide behind patriotism instead of really looking at the issues. --- www.facebook.com/mandyhamptonfitch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,439 #18 February 16, 2003 Liza, while I'm with you on whether it's time to go to war, 9/11 was no more our fault than it's a woman's fault that she was raped when she was wearing a tight skirt. Really. A terrorist will use what he needs to in order to justify what he wants to do anyway. Some world conditions encourage more people to let the inner terrorist out (just like some urban conditions seem to encourage some guys to let the inner rapist out). The fact that I'm using the male gender in this doesn't mean I think only guys are capable of this. However, these specific examples (terrorist and rapist) are pretty overwhelmingly male. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #19 February 16, 2003 Quote However, these specific examples (terrorist and rapist) are pretty overwhelmingly male. Not trying to hijack here but actually there are a good deal of female terrorists. There is a book called "shoot the women first" that is no longer in print but it can be found that deals with the women in various terrorist organizations and their perspective into why they do what they do. The reason for the title of the book is that is what was told to many CT units since most males tend to not view females as threats in a CT situation when in fact it has been well documented that the females are in fact the most brutal and blood thirsty of terrorists to be encountered. This is attributed to the fact that they are already at a disadvantage by being female and compensate for it by over compensating in areas of brutality and fervor. The book is quite well written (female author) and still has very solid principals in todays female terrorists around the world."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skycop 0 #20 February 16, 2003 The last paragraph sums it up! ( I am too stupid to figure out how to quote on here though). Blame America and name call. Truely a grasp of facts! In this forum I prefer sarcasm and inference, not as much typing required! "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #21 February 16, 2003 QuoteYou cannot explain because you don't understand it or else you would have tried. PLEASE PLEASE explain why this is ignorant and not even in the same realm of logic as the situation as Iraq !?!? This is the second time you tried to tell another what he thinks or is saying. If you expect to have an intelligent argument on this topic I suggest that you grow up a bit. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,026 #22 February 16, 2003 QuoteQuoteWTF? PLEASE PLEASE don't tell me I need to explain why this is ignorant and not even in the same realm of logic as the situation as Iraq. I politely disagree with you. I thought it was a very apt metaphor for the situation as it is TODAY. Now, if President Bush comes clean and tells us the real reason for all this, or shows some credible evidence, that will be different. A colleague of mine is convinced that Bush/Powell were set-up by the CIA into presenting as "evidence" a lot of stuff of really dubious credibility.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #23 February 16, 2003 QuoteI politely disagree with you. I thought it was a very apt metaphor for the situation as it is TODAY. Now, if President Bush comes clean and tells us the real reason for all this, or shows some credible evidence, that will be different. Your neighbor doesn't want to kill you with VX gas. You neighbor hasn't murdered hundreds of thousands of his own people. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
charliezulu 0 #24 February 17, 2003 You make some interesting comments about effective argument against some of the respondents up to this point. Maybe you should look into starting your thread with something other than an analogy that really has nothing to do with geopolitical machinations in the real world. If you were trying to get a reaction, you could have just said that you stand for peace in a different way than President Bush plans to attain it. I personally disagree with your point of view, and like to debate these particular points with someone that uses effective debating skills rather than bear-baiting a thread with a pointless quote. Just my $.02. CZ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Speer 0 #25 February 17, 2003 ***The simple fact is that we're brought up to not question anything that the govt does (except for when the body bags coming back home... NAM). 911 was uncalled for but in the end it was a result of our govt's actions. What we cant defend we call complex and go back to our lives. What this redneck leading us does right now will come back and effect us in big ways later. -alphadog So What Is Your Position??? You say 911 was uncalled for, then in the same statement claim we brought it on ourselves, insinuating(?) that we deserved it. You seem to want to claim logic and fact as your foundation, showing disdain for justice that is indicated, because you don't like the current administration (I infer that by your application of the "redneck" title you bestow upon him). So this is how you argue your point, with facts? I suspect you are one of those who know what you believe and refuse to be confused by the facts. And since you bring it up, no I don't accept everyting this or any administration doles out. I also suspect you resent President Bush because he is a man of principle. He may be wrong, but he chooses based on conviction, and sticks with it regardless of the consequence for name calling, lying by ommission, and down right fabrication by the liberal left media and "cultural elite". AND BY THE WAY, they are killing us because we refuse to follow Islam... not my words, but theirs. Read the Koran, it explicitly instructs the followers of Islam to KILL ALL INFIDELS until there is no worship of any God but Allah! I believe that I am paraphrasing from Serah 5, but I do not have a copy of the Koran with me... but don't take my word for it, look it up. How old are you? Did you count the body bags from "Nam"? Have you lost friends and comrades? What puts you in the position of piously pounding your chest, pointing the finger accusingly, and vilifying the administration with pedantic, sarcastic, non-sequitar pieces that you present as argument? If you have suffered such loss directly, then we share! That still doesn't absolve us from doing what is required! That pathetic piece of propaganda is not an apt analogy, because there are, in spite of your claims to the contrary, many facts, coupled with years of action, which clearly demonstrate a threat to the world by Saddam's Iraq! FACTS??? What part of MASS MURDERER of his own people don't you believe? (Germany and France seem to believe it)... What part of SUPPORTER OF TERRORISM (rewarding suicide bomber families) don't you believe? IF you're a supporter of "green" views, what part of ENVIRONMENTAL RAPIST (Desecration via burning of Kuwait oil fields) don't you believe? What part of BIOLOGICAL WEAPONS POSSESSION (Germany and France believe Iraq DID possess them) don't you believe? Do you trust Saddam that they have disposed of them? If so, why won't he co-operate in documenting that? Do you want to trust our childrens future on it? I again infer from your posts that you would much rather have the likes of Gore, Clinton or Carter (I may be unfair in assuming, but I doubt you'd call any of them rednecks) in "control". Then we would do the "right" thing I suppose? Like that disgrace to the Naval Uniform (see I can do the name calling thing too) did in '77 when he essentially murdered our intelligence community? Or when like minded diplodunks (apologies RM) at DOS knowingly compromised operations because they had philosopical differences with battlefield commanders? I find it very hard to refrain from accusing you of moral smugness bouyed only by your wishful thinking that "Peace Talk" will always avert the tradgedy of war. The suspect the difference between us is I am still willing to take the risk personally to fight for the "American Way", it would appear that you would rather force future generations to quell a much stronger threat. Finally, I certainly hope what this God fearing president does will come back to AFFECT us in big ways. Obviously we share divergent views. With no malice or sarcasm, I wish you the very best. I have no illusions of moral superiority, or truth, and I pray we both would develop better "vision". Russ Generally, it is your choice; will your life serve as an example... or a warning? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
