eames 0 #1 February 13, 2003 I thought I'd try my luck as sociologist-for-a-day. So my research question is: What is the average gender composition of 4-way RW team? I realize this is not a true random sample, but hey, I'm not really a sociologist either. Jason Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #2 February 13, 2003 100% men... One of them had long hair...Ray And one acts gay...Carlos Can't really understand any of them, they are from England, Puru, Sweden, and Germany. I am the lone American....Well Ray and Carlos are now. However I think women can skydive as good as men,and think the womens class is STUPID as hell. Sally Hathaway's first team was with us in 98.....I knew she had what it took back then. Women can do as good as men...they have proven it..... Ron"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #3 February 13, 2003 Quote . . . and think the womens class is STUPID as hell. There are two sides to the issue and I can agree with both sides depending upon my mood, but the one thing that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever is why a male camera flyer is allowed on the female teams. If you buy the original premise of it giving women a better opportunity, then I'd have to say the exact same thing about female camera flyers. It just doesn't make any sense.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AntiPinkChrissy 0 #4 February 13, 2003 ok, so I messed up my vote. My team consists of 4 women and a male videographer. And might I add...just because I want to brag a little. Last year was our first year competing and we took first place in the Michigan Skydiving League in the Rookie Class..ok..done inflating my ego. ~La La Gang Member #2~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skygod7777 0 #5 February 13, 2003 Quotebut the one thing that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever is why a male camera flyer is allowed on the female teams. i though i heard they changed that?? maybe not. who knows, but i do agree with ya, it doesn't make too mcuh sence later Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #6 February 13, 2003 No. As a matter of fact, they -specifically- clarified the rules to ensure that female teams may have a male camera flyer. Trust me, I'm a big enough geek to follow this sort of thing. It's just stupid.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weid14 0 #7 February 13, 2003 oops, I voted wrong, but what the heck, I'm teamless in Seattle at the moment... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skygod7777 0 #8 February 13, 2003 QuoteNo. As a matter of fact, they -specifically- clarified the rules to ensure that female teams may have a male camera flyer. Trust me, I'm a big enough geek to follow this sort of thing. i believe ya, i guess i had heard wrong. that is stupid. can a male team have female camera flier?? later Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #9 February 13, 2003 I had a talk with someone on this from the FAI... I asked them why do they allow male Video for female events... I was told that there were not enough good female video people around.... So I asked "So men are better than women??? I don't agree with that." She said "No, but there are more qualified male video jumpers..." I asked "So a female can't learn it?" She said "Well, maybe not in time for the world meet." I didn't agree, and still don't. Video person is a part of the team...Then the female team should have a female video person. Ron"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Enrique 0 #10 February 13, 2003 Quote Can't really understand any of them, they are from England, Puru, Sweden, and Germany. I am the lone American....Well Ray and Carlos are now. That's funny: my team is one guy from France, another guy from Texas (that's almost like a Country all by itslef ), a girl from Illinois, and another guy from Mexico (me). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #11 February 13, 2003 Quotecan a male team have female camera flier?? There are no "male" teams. There are female teams and non-gender specific teams.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skygod7777 0 #12 February 13, 2003 Quote Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- can a male team have female camera flier?? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- There are no "male" teams. There are female teams and non-gender specific teams. oh, ok. that is confusing. it seams like there would be a class for just males too. but what do i care, i just video em if the original camera flier didn't show up for a ISL meet. i don't even have a real team now maybe a freefly team this summer, maybe. and no, i'm not good if anyone thinks i'm really good enough for a freefly team, it would just be for shits and giggles. later Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dterrick 0 #13 February 14, 2003 Interesting, Mr. Quade... I spent last weekend at a Judges course (1st of 2 weekends) and we spent a bunch of time discussing the role of the videographer. Now, I understand, they are awarded medals and are considered "part of the team". Incongruent with gender mixing? Maybe not. The "NJ" rule seems to sugest that the camfly is 'not' a part of the "4 way performance" and therefore the gener of the camfly is irrelevant. Clear as mud? Maybe you have sone ideas? Should they be called 5 way and 9 way events and be completely gender specific with no NJ rule? Enquiring minds want to know... there must be SOME political indicators floating around to suggest why the rules are as they are. Dave Life is very short and there's no time for fussing and fighting my friend (Lennon/McCartney) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #14 February 14, 2003 QuoteThe "NJ" rule seems to sugest that the camfly is 'not' a part of the "4 way performance" and therefore the gener of the camfly is irrelevant. Huzza WHAAAA? No. It's specifically BECAUSE the camera flyer can take points away from the team that he IS a part of the team. I mean, how can a disinterested 3rd party, not a member of the judging staff nor member of the team take away points? No. The camera flyer HAS to be considered a part of the team. If ANY judge thinks for a second that the camera flyer's performance isn't a part of the 4-way presentation, then they really ought to step away from the bright shiny buttons and give it a shot. Why is gender important? Well, to me it isn't, but it is to the folks talking about the "need" for more female competition and the exact same thing can be said for female camera flyers. For instance . . . I know a couple of pretty freekin' competant female camera flyers, but they're probably never going to be able to secure a slot on Airspeed or the GKs. The odds are just against them because there are just so many male camera flyers. And this is the exact same logic being used for the creation of the female 4-way class. So, anyway, because there are so many male camera flyers, they probably ALSO won't be able to secure a slot on the female teams EITHER as long as this rule about male camera flyers on female teams remains. It's a STUPID rule. If you buy the first premise that females need a class of their own, then you should also buy the idea that the camera flyer for those team should have to be female for the EXACT same reason. QuoteEnquiring minds want to know... there must be SOME political indicators floating around to suggest why the rules are as they are. Yeah, the IPC didn't think it through.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weid14 0 #15 February 14, 2003 take it from a team that lost a medal due to camera busts... they are every part of the team. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #16 February 14, 2003 QuoteVideo person is a part of the team...Then the female team should have a female video person. Agreed! Would LOVE to attend another World Meet...as a competitor this time around! ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rdutch 0 #17 February 14, 2003 Quotetake it from a team that lost a medal due to camera busts... they are every part of the team. Jump off? lol Dave Im just kidding. I for one think that a camera(person) is a huge part of the team. Team practice is also camera practice, and a slip in performance or Lack of ability, can cost a team hugely. Trust me I know. There is a lot more to being a teammate than just showing up and shooting video. Heck you would have to have a commitment to the team to put up with Ron for a whole year. Or vice versa. Another note, I talked to Ditta from the Norgie girls and she told me that the rule for a Male videographer was for this year, but next year they have to find a Norwegan Female Videographer. Last year was a lot easier for them cause the video(person) could come from any country. Maybe she is wrong, I dont know, Anyone? Ray Small and fast what every girl dreams of! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weid14 0 #18 February 14, 2003 well, I'd almost consider a sex change to be able to video the norgie women..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallnAngel 0 #19 February 14, 2003 I have a stupid question, so please forgive my ignorance! If you have an all-female team, do you have to compete in the women-only section, or can you be in the category with all-male & mixed teams? If I had an all-female team, I would want to compete with everyone else, not just against other women teams. Thanks, Karen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weid14 0 #20 February 14, 2003 QuoteI have a stupid question, so please forgive my ignorance! If you have an all-female team, do you have to compete in the women-only section, or can you be in the category with all-male & mixed teams? If I had an all-female team, I would want to compete with everyone else, not just against other women teams. Thanks, Karen there are no "all-womens" competitions in the US. The US womens team was the highest placing all-female team in the open division at Nationals. That happened to be Syncronicity. Will be interesting to see what happens this year. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eames 0 #21 February 16, 2003 Wow, only 22 4-way teams out there? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
