BMFin 0 #1 September 29, 2003 Yesterday 14 jumpers including me, were about to jump from a Twin Otter. Not much after take off I noticed the other engine RPM´s went down compared to the other one. (that time about 500 ft / 150m AGL ) I thought it was odd, and I asked others if they knew what it was. No one seemd to be concernd so I just thought the pilots were joking around or something. Not much later we noticed the other propellor was not spinning at all. I still thought they were just playing around, but then I noticed the pilots were pretty busy in the cockpit, wich didnt look too promising. Then the captain announced "we have lost power from the other engine. We will have to make an emergency jump at 2000ft." (that time we were 1000 ft./300m. AGL) The jump master briefed the students and at about 2300ft / 700m we hop&pop´d above the landing area. Everyone landed safely. There were firetrucks waiting close to the runway. But The plane continued to another airport, where they are able to fix what ever is to be fixed.. We bought beer for the pilots who had brought the plane down safely.. Now we just have to wait and see how long time it will take to have our otter back in the air... This was a fun jump.. Even though it was nothing dramatic, Im sure I wont forget for a while.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lazyfrog 0 #2 September 29, 2003 cool thing you're all back... beer is a good idea 700m is low... my lowest exit was 600 meters... with a round, and no S/L---------- Fumer tue, péter pue ------------- ourson #10, Mosquito Uno, CBT 579 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scoby 0 #3 September 29, 2003 Did you go out on your main or your reserve? I'm curious as to what the proper procedure is in this sort of situation. If you go on the main, you might be at or below your hard deck when your chute is deployed. OTOH, there is no second chance if your reserve fails. I think at 2K, I would go with the main, but the reserve any lower than that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,990 #4 September 29, 2003 >Did you go out on your main or your reserve? Exits at 2000 feet, from a stable aircraft, are no problem under a main parachute, and is something everyone should practice. (At least the stable exit and deployment part.) Even if you have a very snively canopy, you have about as much time as if you'd waved off at 3000 and pulled at 2500. If your goal is a safe landing it might be foolish to give up on your second parachute; if your reserve mals you can't cut it away. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kkeenan 14 #5 September 29, 2003 It's important to consider your "time to the ground". Exiting a stable aircraft at 2000 ft. is not the same as pulling at the same altitude while at terminal velocity. The 2000 ft. exit gives you much more time to deal with problems. Kevin_____________________________________ Dude, you are so awesome... Can I be on your ash jump ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sebas 0 #6 September 29, 2003 True, but I've learned at AFF that you pull your reserve in an emergency exit between 1000 and 3000 ft... But I guess the main is safe enough or am I wrong here? Do one thing every day that scares you - Baz Luhrman: The Sunscreen Song Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Casch 0 #7 September 29, 2003 3000ft?? You might want to ask your instructors again... I do hop&pops between 2800-3000ft, I think it would be pretty ridiculous to use your reserve at that altitude. I can understand pulling silver on a 1800-2000ft exit, 1500 for sure. But 3000 ft is more than enough altitude Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scoby 0 #8 September 29, 2003 What altitude is low enough that you would go out on the reserve? I've observed that I don't use a lot of altitude opening when I do a hop n' pop. However, even a couple of hundred feet and a control check would be pretty close to hard deck. It's good to know that the main is ok at 2K, though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #9 September 29, 2003 Below 2k i'm going with the reserve, because of my AAD. If I didn't have one, I might go down to 1600 w/ my main. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,026 #10 September 29, 2003 QuoteBelow 2k i'm going with the reserve, because of my AAD. If I didn't have one, I might go down to 1600 w/ my main. Ah - someone that doesn't turn the CYPRES on and then skydive as if he doesn't have one!... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freakydiver 0 #11 September 29, 2003 Has someone kidnapped Dr. K? Where is the real Dr. K?? -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." -- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 236 #12 September 29, 2003 QuoteWhat altitude is low enough that you would go out on the reserve? I've observed that I don't use a lot of altitude opening when I do a hop n' pop. However, even a couple of hundred feet and a control check would be pretty close to hard deck. It's good to know that the main is ok at 2K, though. My reserve to main transition altitude is a function of canopy in use and venue. If I'm jumping one of my EXTreme FX 99s in Lebanon, ME, where outs = big trees, I might not go to main below 3 grand unless I was sure I was over the DZ. If I'm jumping one of my Raven IVs at Perris, I might use the main at 1,200 feet. I'll be under canopy above a grand and I can sink it in just about anywhere. The decision altitude should be part of your preflight. Blue skies, Winsor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
voodew1 0 #13 September 29, 2003 emergency exit from 1250 out of an otter 18 went out on mains 2 went out on reserves. Still had plenty of time for line twist and controlabilty checks. The first 1000 ft take 10 seconds pull out the door and be ready there is time. The pimp hand is powdered up ... say something stupid Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #14 September 29, 2003 QuoteThe first 1000 ft take 10 seconds pull out the door and be ready there is time. Repeating my comment above...unless you have an AAD. That has the potential to kill you if you hit 750' (give or take) without a fully open parachute just as much as the ground. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BMFin 0 #15 September 29, 2003 QuoteDid you go out on your main or your reserve? I'm curious as to what the proper procedure is in this sort of situation. If you go on the main, you might be at or below your hard deck when your chute is deployed. OTOH, there is no second chance if your reserve fails. I think at 2K, I would go with the main, but the reserve any lower than that. Everyone used their main. Some people did collect some freefall time also.. No problems.. I was open at 600m Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZigZagMarquis 9 #16 September 30, 2003 For what its worth... my 2 cents... err... my plan : 1) 500ft to 1000ft... if something really really dramatic happens (i.e. lots of smoke and flames inside the airplane, wing falls off, airplane breaks in half), if I make it out... RESERVE... obviously.... might as well give it a shot. Anything less dramatic (i.e. the spinny thing stops), gonna stay with the aircraft and hope the pilot does a good enough job of crash landing it so he or she can walk away and we probably will too. 2) 1000ft to 1800ft and I gotta get out... my plan is RESERVE. 3) 1800ft to 2000ft is a bit of a grey area... but I'm still planning RESERVE. 4) 2000ft to 3000ft and I gotta get out... my plan is to go MAIN, but if it does anything by open, I'm gonna be quick on the handles. 5) Above 3000ft... that's a skydive... MAIN. Above all though... in any aircraft emergency, jumpers should follow the instructions of the pilot. The last thing the pilot needs is a bunch of jumpers rushing to the back of the aircraft and turing a minor emergency into a major one. ------ Having said all of that though... I have 4 friends who un-assed themselves from a burning Queen Air at 900ft. They all through their Mains. They all made it, but in hind-sight they all said they went for the most familiar handle because they hadn't tought about it much. One of them in particular remembers throwing out his main, looking at the dirt and thinking, "This might not work", fortunately, it did. The pilot managed to tear-drop the airplane back onto the airport and belly it it and get out too with some minor injuries. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,990 #17 September 30, 2003 >2) 1000ft to 1800ft and I gotta get out... my plan is RESERVE. A good idea, but I can tell you from experience that if you don't practice this a LOT you will automatically go for your main. Try a low jump (say, 2500 or whatever) and exit with both hands on your reserve handle. Keep them open if you're worried about accidentally pulling it. Make sure you can exit stable in that position, count to 1 (or whatever's needed to clear the tail of your plane) and practice deploying the reserve. We tend to do what we're used to doing unless we train ourselves to do something else. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tobi778 0 #18 September 30, 2003 Hell, last saturday we jumped night jumps from 600m (about 1900ft) from our Cessna when the clouds wouldn't allow us to go any higher... I was jumping my Vengeance 120 loaded 1.5ish and had no problems. I hope you bought beer!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dex 0 #19 September 30, 2003 Quote Repeating my comment above...unless you have an AAD. That has the potential to kill you if you hit 750' (give or take) without a fully open parachute just as much as the ground. Well if you are at 1250 feet with a cypres and you want to go out on your main remember your cypress does not activate until 1500 so the choice is still yours. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhillyKev 0 #20 September 30, 2003 QuoteWell if you are at 1250 feet with a cypres and you want to go out on your main remember your cypress does not activate until 1500 so the choice is still yours. Assuming the combination of the margin of error for your altimiter and cypress is within that 250' AND the air pressure on the ground has not changed since you calibrated either.....maybe... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites faulknerwn 38 #21 September 30, 2003 QuoteQuoteThe first 1000 ft take 10 seconds pull out the door and be ready there is time. Repeating my comment above...unless you have an AAD. That has the potential to kill you if you hit 750' (give or take) without a fully open parachute just as much as the ground. Except in this case the aircraft only went to 1250 feet - i.e. it never got to 1500 feet for the Cypres to arm. W Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,990 #22 September 30, 2003 >Assuming the combination of the margin of error for your altimiter > and cypress is within that 250' AND the air pressure on the ground > has not changed since you calibrated either.....maybe... If the air pressure decreases suddenly the cypres will arm lower AND fire lower. If it drops suddenly just before exit, and then rises suddenly shortly AFTER exit - it just might be your time to go. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhillyKev 0 #23 September 30, 2003 Come on now. You know there are burbles, and lots of other reasons to throw altimiters off. I frequently look around at other peoples wrists and see a couple hundred foot difference from one altimiter to another. Are you saying you implicity trust your cypress and your altimiter to function properly to within a couple hundred feet and would risk having 2 out? Relying on an AAD not to fire under less than ideal conditions sounds suspiciously like relying on an AAD to save your life. Not like you, Bill. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skydiverton 0 #24 October 1, 2003 2000FT is absolutely no problem. Just make a hop&pop with your face in the direction of flight. You can even take 3 seconds to be sure you are stable. You already have the projected speed (flying speed) My lowest was 1700ft (freefall) No problem. The only funny thing is most skydivers can do a hop&pop without problems exept when doing Canopy formation and at 2000ft Congratulations with your first emergency-exit. This is where parachutes have been invented for ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Using your droque to gain stability is a bad habit, Especially when you are jumping a sport rig Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NoShitThereIWas 0 #25 October 8, 2003 Nice job to everyone: the pilots, instructors, students, other jumpers and firemen standing by just in case Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires." Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 1 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. 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billvon 2,990 #17 September 30, 2003 >2) 1000ft to 1800ft and I gotta get out... my plan is RESERVE. A good idea, but I can tell you from experience that if you don't practice this a LOT you will automatically go for your main. Try a low jump (say, 2500 or whatever) and exit with both hands on your reserve handle. Keep them open if you're worried about accidentally pulling it. Make sure you can exit stable in that position, count to 1 (or whatever's needed to clear the tail of your plane) and practice deploying the reserve. We tend to do what we're used to doing unless we train ourselves to do something else. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tobi778 0 #18 September 30, 2003 Hell, last saturday we jumped night jumps from 600m (about 1900ft) from our Cessna when the clouds wouldn't allow us to go any higher... I was jumping my Vengeance 120 loaded 1.5ish and had no problems. I hope you bought beer!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dex 0 #19 September 30, 2003 Quote Repeating my comment above...unless you have an AAD. That has the potential to kill you if you hit 750' (give or take) without a fully open parachute just as much as the ground. Well if you are at 1250 feet with a cypres and you want to go out on your main remember your cypress does not activate until 1500 so the choice is still yours. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #20 September 30, 2003 QuoteWell if you are at 1250 feet with a cypres and you want to go out on your main remember your cypress does not activate until 1500 so the choice is still yours. Assuming the combination of the margin of error for your altimiter and cypress is within that 250' AND the air pressure on the ground has not changed since you calibrated either.....maybe... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
faulknerwn 38 #21 September 30, 2003 QuoteQuoteThe first 1000 ft take 10 seconds pull out the door and be ready there is time. Repeating my comment above...unless you have an AAD. That has the potential to kill you if you hit 750' (give or take) without a fully open parachute just as much as the ground. Except in this case the aircraft only went to 1250 feet - i.e. it never got to 1500 feet for the Cypres to arm. W Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,990 #22 September 30, 2003 >Assuming the combination of the margin of error for your altimiter > and cypress is within that 250' AND the air pressure on the ground > has not changed since you calibrated either.....maybe... If the air pressure decreases suddenly the cypres will arm lower AND fire lower. If it drops suddenly just before exit, and then rises suddenly shortly AFTER exit - it just might be your time to go. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #23 September 30, 2003 Come on now. You know there are burbles, and lots of other reasons to throw altimiters off. I frequently look around at other peoples wrists and see a couple hundred foot difference from one altimiter to another. Are you saying you implicity trust your cypress and your altimiter to function properly to within a couple hundred feet and would risk having 2 out? Relying on an AAD not to fire under less than ideal conditions sounds suspiciously like relying on an AAD to save your life. Not like you, Bill. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverton 0 #24 October 1, 2003 2000FT is absolutely no problem. Just make a hop&pop with your face in the direction of flight. You can even take 3 seconds to be sure you are stable. You already have the projected speed (flying speed) My lowest was 1700ft (freefall) No problem. The only funny thing is most skydivers can do a hop&pop without problems exept when doing Canopy formation and at 2000ft Congratulations with your first emergency-exit. This is where parachutes have been invented for ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Using your droque to gain stability is a bad habit, Especially when you are jumping a sport rig Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NoShitThereIWas 0 #25 October 8, 2003 Nice job to everyone: the pilots, instructors, students, other jumpers and firemen standing by just in case Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires." Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
