wmw999 2,452 #1 January 17, 2003 No poll, just curious: What do you gain from whatever your beliefs are? Do you believe others should believe as you do? If you do, is there a best way to help them believe as you do? As an example, I'm a loving-god type of liberal Christian; I gain some validation of self and just general fuzzy feel-good from feeling that I am loved externally. Kinda weak? Maybe for someone else. Works for me. I think other people should believe in whatever helps them to be better in this world; if you live only for the next one, WTF is the purpose of this one? Obviously, then, the best way to help others believe as they do is simply to be myself, and if asked, share. Well, either that or hit the "Post New" button. But I wonder sometimes about faiths that use fear as a way to "attract" others to their faith. I don't understand it. What exactly does it cost you if someone else isn't doing what you think they should? Or is it just a way to feel superior to people who aren't like you? Likewise people who make fun of theists of various stripes. What does it hurt you if someone else believes in something you think is silly. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #2 January 17, 2003 Quote What do you gain from whatever your beliefs are? Freedom. Quote Do you believe others should believe as you do? No. Quote If you do, is there a best way to help them believe as you do? Each person must walk their own path IMO. If that means an established doctrine or religion or own spiritual belief...doesn't matter. So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #3 January 17, 2003 Yeah mostly I agree w/ above. One thing I've noticed as my faith has strengthened since 1996: This is kind of hard to describe, but its a positive sort of detachment from the world...I know that sounds weird, even negative, but I really don't know how else to describe it. It's not that I don't care about people or anything, if anything I care more. But I guess I have a stonger sense that I'm just temporarily riding around in this body on this planet. So when shit happens to me or I'm feeling down or frightened or angry, there's a stronger part of me which tells me that this is only temporary & to just ride it out. I also have a stronger sense that if I were to be faced with, say, a life-threatening emergency, I'd be better able to keep my head & deal with it rather than panicking or sinking into despair. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SBS 0 #4 January 17, 2003 What do you gain from whatever your beliefs are? Awareness. An interesting spin on this question...I think it's a good question, but at the same time, one must not make beliefs his or her focus. Regardless of what one believes, the ultimate end will be dicated by truth, of which beliefs are only an interpretation. So, for me here, now, personally, I think I gain awareness...ultimately, my beliefs, I believe, will not change what is reality. Do you believe others should believe as you do? I believe that people should respect and listen to all different beliefs in the world. If after hearing what I have to say they choose to believe like I do, then great. If they do not, though, who am I to say that they are wrong, when neither of us will ever know for sure? If you do, is there a best way to help them believe as you do? Presentation with a balance of reason and emotion. If you present something without the emotional appeal, then you may have someone's mind, but you don't have "them". Likewise, if you mearly appeal to emotion, then they will not be able to help but shoot holes in your logic. You have to know who you are talking to, and adjust your presentation accordingly. Show similarities between your beliefs and theirs. If it turns into a debate, there are two steps...rules, and application of the rules. If you try to convince them that your rules are correct, then you have two debates to win. If you know their rules ahead of time, then you can use them, and proceed immediately into your arguement...applying their own rules to your beliefs, and thus creating an arguement based on their own values. Make sense? -S_____________ I'm not conceited...I'm just realistic about my awesomeness... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Schroeder 0 #5 January 17, 2003 Just playing devil's advocate here, but speedracer, from what I just read, you have Faith, in something. And you said that since 1996, when stuff happens, a part of you tells you that it'll pass, things will be OK, etc. And if faced with an emergency, you'd keep your head, that sort of thing. Now, are you attributing these feelings to your faith, or do you feel that even without your faith, you'd still feel this way? I guess what I'm getting at, is: Is a belief/faith in something really nessecary to feel good about a person's role this world? Or should a person be able to be optimistic, hopeful outlook in absence of said belief/faith? (ideally.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #6 January 17, 2003 Quote Just playing devil's advocate here, but speedracer, from what I just read, you have Faith, in something. And you said that since 1996, when stuff happens, a part of you tells you that it'll pass, things will be OK, etc. And if faced with an emergency, you'd keep your head, that sort of thing. Now, are you attributing these feelings to your faith, or do you feel that even without your faith, you'd still feel this way? I guess what I'm getting at, is: Is a belief/faith in something really nessecary to feel good about a person's role this world? Or should a person be able to be optimistic, hopeful outlook in absence of said belief/faith? (ideally.) I know you directed this to SpeedRacer, but I wanted to share my experience too. As my faith has changed over the years, it has played a varying role in finding acceptance in the face of good/bad/whatever events may transpire in my life. I'm not perfect at it, and I don't always keep my head, but it's a far cry better than nothing at all IMO. So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #7 January 17, 2003 QuoteIs a belief/faith in something really nessecary to feel good about a person's role this world? Or should a person be able to be optimistic, hopeful outlook in absence of said belief/faith? sure I guess. I was just talking about my own personal experience. The truth is, I was already pretty optimistic and happy to begin with, so yeah, I think you're right. I just noticed that my outlook on life & ability to deal with adversity was enhanced directly by my embracing the Christian faith, due to a heightened sense of transcendance of the material world. Could that sense of transcendance happen thru other religions, or even thru non-deity-centered spiritual beliefs? Sure, I don't see why not. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Schroeder 0 #8 January 17, 2003 I think that's great. I feel that so long as people can get some perspective on this world, and see the forest for the trees as it were, we're all a lot better off. I personally think though, that religion is a lot like entering into a relationship. Some people just came out of a damaging experience, and get right into a new relationship (rebound); Some people enter into the new relationship fresh, open, and willing to grow and devote themselves to it; some people have been single for a long time, getting to know themselves. Some people even choose to stay single once they feel like they're on the right track. Some people are jealous, some are open. Some have envy of other couples, some have petty hatred. All in all, when I talk to a single guy/girl about to get into a relationship, I tell them, above all, be ready. There are so many instances where you're setting yourself up for defeat, and there are so many instances where things can and will, be amazing. (hopefully you guys are still following my analogy) People say that no matter who you are, or who you're going into a relationship with, if you don't already love yourself, you can't give your full self to another. If you go in not knowing yourself, you are eventually going to project certain faults and weaknesses onto your relationship, that could potentially be damaging. Same goes for religion. I personally, hold no particular faith. I do believe that something inside me often directs and advises me, but I'm reluctant to attribute it to an external entity, after all, I feel it's coming from inside me, so either it's my soul, or it's good fortune. Either way, I go with it, with full realization that I'm only here for a little while, so I try to do the best I can here. If the next place is nowhere, so be it, I'll know I did this right, if it's the 4th plane of kashmeraga, great. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jfields 0 #9 January 17, 2003 Hmm. Interesting questions. I'm an atheist, and I pretty much sum my interpersonal, non-denominational, non-divine religious beliefs as "Do to others as you'd have them do to you". That's it. That is my "religion" in a nutshell. I think everyone is entitled to their own opinions and the freedom to think and believe as they see fit, as long as it doesn't obstruct those same freedoms in others. In the very limited scope of what I care about, I do believe others should see it the same way. If I'm proselytizing anything, it is general tolerance that transcends religion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sunman 0 #10 January 17, 2003 QuoteI'm an atheist, and I pretty much sum my interpersonal, non-denominational, non-divine religious beliefs as "Do to others as you'd have them do to you". Do you know who was the first person to say that? Just curious. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jfields 0 #11 January 17, 2003 Quote Do you know who was the first person to say that? Just curious. Oh, I have a good idea. I just choose to accept only that part and toss the rest away as superfluous. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,452 #12 January 17, 2003 I think Confucious said it long before Christ did. And Christ said it before Maimonides. And Confucious probably heard it from his kindergarten teacher Wendy W. There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,998 #13 January 17, 2003 >What do you gain from whatever your beliefs are? Perspective. Tranquility. >Do you believe others should believe as you do? No; in fact, I'm pretty sure most don't. >What exactly does it cost you if someone else isn't doing what you think they should? Most organized religions gain political power, money-raising power etc the larger they grow. Therefore, there is benefit to the individual (bigger church, governmental recognition) if they convert others to their (organized) religion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deuce 1 #14 January 17, 2003 Well, I get together with my neighbors, we share a traditional ceremony, and we socialize together and basically believe the same things are good and are bad. My kids go to school with their kids, play basketball together, sing in the choir, and go to birthday parties. We parents watch them and share the joy of raising them. My parish is a very small town in a pretty big community. Right now I'm investing my children in a belief structure that has served me well. I didn't practice actively when I was single, not that frequently when I was married in the pre-kid era, but now that my kids are in parochial shool, we go to church weekly. It makes us an active part of a manageably sized community. We could bowl, I guess, but this makes us feel a little better than that. Oh, and occasionally I get to skydive with soldiers of fortune and strippers, and I think Jesus is OK with that Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GrumpySmurf 0 #15 January 17, 2003 Quote What do you gain from whatever your beliefs are? My Tao acknowledges that I am who I am, by trying to change who I am, I cause discord in my own life. By accepting who I am, I can instead focus my attention on refining that which defines me. In plain English this means two things - you can tell me to change all you want, I ain't moving an inch and I prescribe to 'situational ethics' - the uniqueness of the situation defines my beliefs - that fluidity leaves no reason for guilt "Do you believe others should believe as you do?" My beliefs are unique to me - trying to fit them to someone else would cause discord in both lives. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sebazz1 2 #16 January 17, 2003 Quote What do you gain? Well when praying to the skygods I gain the following: *Clear Blue Skies or Big White Broken Puffies *Light to Zero Wind Days *A Fridge Full of Ice Cold Beer! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jfields 0 #17 January 17, 2003 Sebazz, I've always been an atheist, but your religion sounds pretty good! I may just convert. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerry81 10 #18 January 17, 2003 >What do you gain from whatever your beliefs are? The ability to cope with the world/universe and the way it keeps changing. >Do you believe others should believe as you do? As a matter of fact, I do. I'd never try to 'convert' someone who was happy with what they believe in, unless their belief had a negative influence on my life (or if they started with the converting. I once almost made two Jehova's witnesses cry). But I do believe the world would be a better place if people would realize that life's most difficult questions do not have simple answers and that these answers can not be learned from a particular book or in a church- they must be your own conclusions based on all the knowledge you soak up in your life- and as such, always subject to change. >If you do, is there a best way to help them believe as you do? Yes, by posting my views on an internet board read exclusively by people considered by a majority to be 'a little weird'. But seriously, no. As someone already said, each person should walk their own path. If the wide paved road suits you best, take it. I'm over here stumbling over rocks and through bushes and having a great time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cava 0 #19 January 17, 2003 As long as one's religion or life philosophy is not an excuse to be a bigot, racist, elitist, or prosletyzing bore, go for it. My theory of life is that something strange is going on, and I have no idea what it is. So I'll just live in such a way that I have self-respect. And when I get home from work today I'm going to drink a 12pack of Pabst on an empty stomach then chase my cat around the apartment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Winston 0 #20 January 18, 2003 Nothing. For most religions to exist there has to be an enemy. Therefore, religion divides unlike what it proposes to propagate. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skystorm 0 #21 January 18, 2003 QuoteWhat do you gain.. A friend once told me : If there is a God and he believed in God, when the world comes to an end, he would loose nothing. But if he didn't believe in God, he had lost everyting. Gene Police: "YOU!! Out of the pool, NOW!!!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #22 January 18, 2003 pascals wager...an old arguement and a very very flawed one(there are more than two choices)..a brief summary of some of its holes is in the "what do you believe" thread..i'd repost it, but i think everyone should seek truth for themselves, and not blindly follow what they are told ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackC 0 #23 January 18, 2003 QuoteWhat do you gain from whatever your beliefs are? Nothing. I just believe in one less God than your average theist which means I don't have to waste my time talking to myself thinking that someone is listening. QuoteDo you believe others should believe as you do? People should look for the truth themselves and anyone who does not dispassionately evaluate evidence both in support and counter to his/her held beliefs makes themselves vulnerable to delusion. QuoteIf you do, is there a best way to help them believe as you do? During the Nuremburg trials a German officer said something along the lines of "you can make people believe anything. You just blame someone else for everything that is wrong in the world and call your target audience unpatriotic if they don't agree with you". It seems to me that this method has been used by religious institutions for years. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bobsled92 0 #24 January 18, 2003 My faith is strong. My opinions are my own_______________________________ If I could be a Super Hero, I chose to be: "GRANT-A-CLAUS". and work 365 days a Year. http://www.hangout.no/speednews/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
