xijonix 0 #1 November 13, 2012 New jumper here on a budget and looking for a descent first canopy. There is a PD 9 cell 190 in the classifieds now that fits in my budget and has only 170 jumps during its 17 years of service. I've heard that their flare power diminishes over time and that they are best at around 1.1 WL. Is this information true and if so, what can I expect from a canopy with this low jumps in that given wingload? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
irishrigger 32 #2 November 13, 2012 hiya, canopys are made out of different types of material and this one sounds like an F111 canopy. its the same material that the reserve is made out of. 170 jumps on a 17yr old canopy is very little and providing the canopy was taken care off in the past it still might be in very good condition. however,the more sunlight and jumps this type of canopy gets, the material will weaken. it will get you back on the ground but landing will become harder and sometimes unpleasanti would very strongly recommend to you to get a ZP coverd canopy. it will be stronger and longer lasting than an F111 canopy, also it be able to carry more weight and land better in that situation. i also highly recommend that you get a rigger to have a look at the gear before you decide to purchase it second hand, if no rigger available ask your instructor. all the best in getting your canopy sorted rodger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
monkycndo 0 #3 November 13, 2012 With all the other canopies available, the F1-11 canopies of that era are less desirable by most jumpers. So as you put more jumps on it, it will be even older and more used. You may be the last owner as no one will buy it off you when you are ready to upgrade. Is the low price worth being the last owner since resale value might go to zero?50 donations so far. Give it a try. You know you want to spank it Jump an Infinity Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #4 November 13, 2012 QuoteNew jumper here on a budget and looking for a descent first canopy. There is a PD 9 cell 190 in the classifieds now that fits in my budget and has only 170 jumps during its 17 years of service. I've heard that their flare power diminishes over time and that they are best at around 1.1 WL. Is this information true and if so, what can I expect from a canopy with this low jumps in that given wingload? Fly like a brick, land like a sack of bricks. A Sabre would serve you better even with 1000 jumps. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NewGuy2005 53 #5 November 13, 2012 I had a PD 9 cell. It was sensitive to packing technique and was prone to very hard openings. One of which was so bad that I still feel it in my back 5 years later. It was also difficult to time the flare on landing. One good thing: It was easy to pack. I would not buy another one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,326 #6 November 13, 2012 OH Bullshit. Don't listen to them for they know not what they speaketh. Hi Guys!! It's a great canopy. It'll last you to a thousand jumps - no problem. You'll learn how to spot. You'll learn where the outs are and how to take the outs instead of try to make it back to the DZ at any & all costs. Once you find the flare point for the varying wind speeds, you'll dial it in so well that you'll have more tippy toe landings on this canopy than a ZP. A WORD OF CAUTION: Type of line is very important on this. If it's dacron lines, more than likely you may need a new lineset for no other reason than to lower the pack volume to get it in the pack tray. Two of my favorite F111 canopies have been the PD 9 cell and the Falcon. Now, after all that.. if you can find a zp canopy at 1:1; you'd be better off on duration and resale. Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #7 November 13, 2012 QuoteNew jumper here on a budget and looking for a descent first canopy Good plan, the PD190 is not going to be the one. Even with low jumps, the performance is going to leave you wanting. I won't glide as far, it won't fly as fast (meaning wind sped becomes more a factor) and it won't flare very well. People have had good experience with F-111 canopies, but there was a time that was all you could get, so people had to jump them. Take a look at the F-111 canopies you can buy new today, and that should give you a clue as to what you should look for (hint- there are almost no F-111 main canopies you can buy new today). Keep shopping. ZP canopies can last for 2000 jumps, so there's a wide range of 'used' canopies that will work for you. 2000 jumps is for the fabric only, the lines will need replacing well before that. In any case, don't buy any used gear unless your rigger has inspected it, and deemed it 'airworthy'. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gato 0 #8 November 16, 2012 If I may offer my opinion (based on my limited personal experience as a jumper and rigger...) Let me preface this: Some people would say Twin Otters or King Airs are "better" than the old Cessna 182s. Is that true? Some say a Suzuki GSX-R is a better bike than a Harley Davidson Sportster. Is that true? Every parachute has advantages and disadvantages. Most F-111 canopies won't land you as pretty as ZP mains (depending on the pilot, of course.) On the other hand, as time and exposure to UV goes by, ZP material is prone to catastrophic failure, where an F-111 might only develop a hole or small rip. (This is why you don't find many ZP reserve pilot chutes, and good luck finding a ZP reserve.) I made my first 200 or so jumps on a PD230 made in 1996, and frankly, it was/is a great canopy. There are a LOT of people who will tell you emphatically not to buy a canopy made of F-111, but there are also some old-timers who'll tell you they hate ZP. Your personal mileage will always vary. I've had way more hard (and weird,) openings on ZP mains as opposed to those of my PD230. And lest we forget, you can hold a PD 9-cell in deep brakes and sink it into just about anywhere. Talk to your instructors, talk to demo jumpers, talk to the old guys who don't walk with a limp. None of us here are qualified to tell you what you should buy. "Now you go and get your checkbook while I start filling the forms in..." Edited to add: You might also notice that 99.9% of all BASE canopies are NOT made of ZP. I wonder why that is... T.I.N.S. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #9 November 16, 2012 Quote Edited to add: You might also notice that 99.9% of all BASE canopies are NOT made of ZP. I wonder why that is... Canopy speed and stall characteristics? I'm someone who jumped old PD 9-cells and Raider 220s and a handful of other wonderful F111 canopies. I've also jumped just about every mid-range production canopy on the market as well as the high performance open 9-cells and some of the high end swooping canopies. For every day skydiving you won't be happy with the performance of that old PD 9-cell. If you even bought an old Sabre1 you would probably like the flight and flare characteristics a bit better. If you buy the canopy, get good at landing out, get good at PLF and get used to sitting out for winds.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
