DZBone 0 #26 December 18, 2002 Quote what do you think the Internet was designed around? The Public Switched Telephone Network (PSTN). Who do you think the Internet is? It is: AT&T, Sprint, WorldCom (UUNet), Cable&Wireless and Genuity (Level 3/Verizon investment). No matter who your ISP is, that traffic rides off of one of those five networks. They are the Internet. Sorry... This is going to bug me if I don't respond. Not like shooting dogs bugged, or undirected nightmares, but anyway... The Internet was actually not designed around PSTN, it just happened to be the only appropriate plant in place at the time it was being built out. It was actually designed to be independent of media. I have a perfectly functioning IP network in my house that is a combination of wireless and ethernet, not a PSTN in sight. In fact, here is the traceroute from my laptop to dropzone.com: traceroute to dropzone.com (64.69.64.39), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets 1 firewall-in.int.simpli.com (192.168.0.1) 1.161 ms 1.078 ms 1.112 ms 2 10.2.48.1 (10.2.48.1) 9.846 ms 11.666 ms 14.698 ms 3 68.9.8.61 (68.9.8.61) 11.888 ms 14.637 ms 14.711 ms 4 68.9.8.197 (68.9.8.197) 29.566 ms 20.916 ms 27.598 ms 5 provdsrc02-gew0304.rd.ri.cox.net (68.9.14.17) 13.955 ms 13.988 ms 10.971 ms 6 provbbrc02-pos0101.rd.ri.cox.net (68.1.0.48) 10.402 ms 11.919 ms 15.319 ms 7 provdsrc02-gew03010999.rd.ri.cox.net (68.1.0.51) 23.592 ms 23.779 ms 23.069 ms 8 68.1.1.3 (68.1.1.3) 23.138 ms 23.258 ms 23.108 ms 9 68.1.1.17 (68.1.1.17) 29.050 ms 24.699 ms 24.310 ms 10 WASHDC5LCE1.3.0.wcg.net (206.223.115.83) 25.539 ms 45.290 ms 24.097 ms 11 hrndva1wcx3-oc48.wcg.net (64.200.95.117) 25.947 ms 24.905 ms 24.228 ms 12 hrndva1wcx2-oc48.wcg.net (64.200.95.73) 115.020 ms 130.112 ms 115.140 ms 13 nycmny2wcx2-oc48.wcg.net (64.200.240.45) 113.729 ms 142.690 ms 115.534 ms 14 nycmny2wcx3-oc48.wcg.net (64.200.87.74) 119.146 ms 116.356 ms 116.935 ms 15 chcgil1wcx3-oc48.wcg.net (64.200.240.37) 210.912 ms 125.113 ms 197.642 ms 16 sttlwa1wce2-oc48.wcg.net (64.200.240.14) 117.832 ms 118.484 ms 117.790 ms 17 sttlwa2wce1-pos5-1.wcg.net (64.200.135.97) 117.192 ms 115.367 ms 118.349 ms 18 sttlwablce1-pos3-0.wcg.net (64.200.135.110) 114.306 ms 114.944 ms 116.333 ms 19 sttlwablhx1-yipes.wcg.net (64.200.134.30) 133.728 ms 114.411 ms 114.858 ms 20 ge1-3-0-202.sea001jp01.yipes.com (66.7.162.182) 100.585 ms 99.027 ms 98.071 ms 21 209.120.213.2 (209.120.213.2) 126.249 ms 115.465 ms 112.264 ms 22 OC12ATM3-0.van-gsr-b.peer1.net (64.69.67.153) 115.969 ms 119.285 ms 118.563 ms 23 64.69.85.67 (64.69.85.67) 118.618 ms 115.523 ms 118.017 ms 24 dropzone.com (64.69.64.39) 148.083 ms 118.593 ms 131.522 ms Now, you didn't mention Williams on your list, and there are probably some links in this list that are lines sourced from one of those five, but I bet we could dig around and find a path or two that don't pass through any of their plants. Or are you saying something different (it's late here )? _________________________________________________ If you hadn't read this, would it have made a sound? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rmsmith 1 #27 December 18, 2002 Quote Pacbell can lick my nut sack!!! hehe, that's funny. Unfortunately I'm in snow country, but I do do have a cheaper and faster pipeline: Fiber to the House Cost? Only $25.95/month. Speed? I can easily download a 15-Mb MPG in about 3-min or less! The fiber network is always hot, so I filter the packets with a Netscreen 5XP hardware firewall appliance. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DZBone 0 #28 December 18, 2002 How much was the installation, and who is doing this? _________________________________________________ If you hadn't read this, would it have made a sound? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rmsmith 1 #29 December 18, 2002 QuoteHow much was the installation, and who is doing this? Free fiber installation next to the power meter. I pulled my own CAT5. http://www.gcpud.org/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DZBone 0 #30 December 18, 2002 Quote Quote How much was the installation, and who is doing this? Free fiber installation next to the power meter. I pulled my own CAT5. http://www.gcpud.org/ Damn. I hope this takes off in a major way! Well, here's a wireless story that looked interesting before I saw your post. _________________________________________________ If you hadn't read this, would it have made a sound? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rmsmith 1 #31 December 18, 2002 QuoteDamn. I hope this takes off in a major way! The idea is to monitor the real-time power usage throughout the county with their fiber, so they can sell the excess power to areas where it brings in the most money; they sell Internet connections as a side business since all that bandwidth is just sitting there. I live in an all electric household, but the bill is only $65.00/month, and it's icy outside these days. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DZBone 0 #32 December 18, 2002 Quote since all that bandwidth is just sitting there Single mode fiber with gigabit ethernet? Seems a bit much for monitoring electricity. It seems like maybe you have some progressive thinkers on that PUD that saw the potential for broadband competing with the lamo local phone company and cable company. They also set up the business exectly right. They just put in the fiber and resell it, letting the retailers provide all the services competitvely (ie cheaply and well). They also talk about the fact that there are rural residents who don't even have phone. Nice jump to lightspeed for them! Seems like they may be violating the Prime Directive there. So what kind of choice in ISPs do you have, and did you get lit or dark fiber? _________________________________________________ If you hadn't read this, would it have made a sound? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #33 December 18, 2002 Quote Or are you saying something different (it's late here )? Really, I'm saying two things. First I was replying simply to your remark about the phone companies not being involved as an ISP. I was simply stating that without them, there would be no Internet at all. Secondly, the development into the ARPANET was all designed around the PSTN, because is was the only appropriate plant that could provide survivability in the event of a nuclear attach (when DoD first commissioned research on the project in the 1960s). The copper wires can still carry a signal in a radioactive environment, and the switched network can compensate for downed wire centers (i.e. this is the main reason why Wall Street was back up in a week after 9/11, though Verizon admits that more redundancy would have been useful), etc. Basically the research that ultimately resulted in the Internet was put in to practice by DoD to ensure command and control through the smoky radioactive ruins if we were to go to war with the USSR. As for your trace route (you're using COX right?), the number of hops indicates a "bumpy back road" which we, as consumers are doomed to deal with. Williams has a good network, but does not have the private peering that the other "big guys" do. I'm tired too.. Right now at this moment, I'm not exactly certain what my second point was supposed to be. So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #34 December 18, 2002 Quote Seems a bit much for monitoring electricity True, but look at what they've opened up. Utilities love owning things. Their electricity and other traditional services provide a cash cow to enable these facilities to households. It's very risky, but potentially very profitable. I'm guessing they bought a ton of cheap fiber from dead companies like Enron Broadband, 360 networks ,etc... So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rmsmith 1 #35 December 18, 2002 QuoteSo what kind of choice in ISPs do you have, and did you get lit or dark fiber? Several local providers are available, and I went with one that doesn't offer any e-mail, nntp, etc., just an unthrottled static IP connection to the Internet via their own Cisco equipment. I went with Newsguy in Palo Alto, CA for my services. I had to provide the Firewall, NIC, and CAT5 cable. The power utility simple offers the bandwidth on their fiber. There's no "telco" involved at the local level and most of the bandwidth is unused, so there's plenty of "dark" fiber available. U.S. West (is/was) trying to block the network rollout claiming a violation of regulations, but they were not in a position to offer any high-speed services in this area. It was a business thing; an unfavorable view of competition. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DZBone 0 #36 December 18, 2002 Quote U.S. West (is/was) trying to block the network rollout claiming a violation of regulations, but they were not in a position to offer any high-speed services in this area. It was a business thing; an unfavorable view of competition. Well, they are going to hell too. Along with the RIAA and MPAA. _________________________________________________ If you hadn't read this, would it have made a sound? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
