The Plagues of Egypt, Courtesy of the USAF

[happythoughts 0]

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How do you get a dog to stop humping your leg? Pick him up and give him a bj.

Or brain them with a Louisville Slugger.....

remind me to bring my kevlar.

Are you going to be in danger? "Step away from the leg, sir."

[Guest]

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Whatever for? Are we supposed to award them points for good form or something?

I do understand. I understand that only the most unholy brutality can stop thugs who would hijack airplanes and fly them into buildings.

Once we use epithets to describe people, we lose the ability to deal with them as individuals. I can't tell a peaceful fundamentalist Muslim from a warmongering fundamentalist Muslim other than by talking to them (people can lie) or watching them (much more effective, but can be too late).

Wendy W.

I think that is valid. But as has been said elsewhere, "how can I tell them apart?"

"Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them." (Matthew 7:20)

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[freeflir29 0]

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"how can I tell them apart?"

"The ones that run are VC.....the ones that stand still are well disciplined VC."

[blueshrew 0]

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"They hate us for our freedom." - Dubya

If that were true, the US wouldn't be the target of their "hate". There are a bunch of other countries that have more freedom.

Besides, apart from say 3 countries in the Middle East, all your claims would bring anyone living there to hysterical laughing.

Anyway, I'd say it has more to do with the US playing police when it has an economical gain.
But actually, I think the percentage of people who "hate" the US down there, is equal to that in any other country, but you just hear about the fundamentalists and see them as the general rule, when in fact they probably don't even amount to 0.001%.

[Gawain 0]

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I simply don't accept that we should assume they're all warmongering. Because that make us just like the people who think all Americans are rich capitalist perverts (no offense intended to rich capitalist American perverts )

I agree with you, not everyone is a terrorist. Believe it or not, politics aside, a lot of people all over the world, including those in the middle east do not "hate" us, if anything, there are many that like what the western culture has to offer. I for one, can make the same distinction of their culture for the most part (civilians vs. politics, etc.). However, despite my best efforts, it has been the work of a few young, male, middle-eastern, men that have tainted even my best intentions and desires to maintain a open attitude. While I don't consciously need to blanket the entire culture with an epithet, I do have something in my sub-conscious that does. I find it difficult to accept anyone that argues otherwise. I will look upon that region and culture much more differently, and always with more scrutiny than before.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Gawain 0]

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If that were true, the US wouldn't be the target of their "hate". There are a bunch of other countries that have more freedom.

Specifically, what other countries?

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[LouDiamond 1]

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"how can I tell them apart?"

"The ones that run are VC.....the ones that stand still are well disciplined VC."

YEAH! ......GIT SOME!!

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[Guest]

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"how can I tell them apart?"

"The ones that run are VC.....the ones that stand still are well disciplined VC."

I remember that sick joke from Vietnam:

Reporter: "How can you shoot women and children?!"
Door Gunner: "It's easy - you just don't lead them as much."

Kidding aside, I'm appalled by the suffering the people of Afghanistan have had to endure, and I hope that the situation will stabilize over there now.

And there's one good thing the Taliban did - they were serious about eradicating the opium business. Now that they're gone, the poppy shipments have skyrocketed. That is unfortunate. Perhaps one day things will be better in Afghanistan, and they'll grow food instead of dope.

Yes, we have killed innocents over there. Mistakes are made in war, and innocents die. However, there is a big difference between accidentally killing innocents, and deliberately targeting them to generate terror. That's the big difference between "US" and "THEM".

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[wmw999 2,545]

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I will look upon that region and culture much more differently, and always with more scrutiny than before.

No doubt; me too. You're saying what you're going to do. It invites thought, and a consideration of what each other person will do. Think, act.

Somehow it's different when you call someone by an epithet -- it's a little more likely to encourage others to take an agree, act type of approach. And simple agreement is not the same as consideration and thought.

Well, maybe if you're incapable of higher thought

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[blueshrew 0]

Germany and the Netherlands to name just two.

[freeflir29 0]

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And there's one good thing the Taliban did - they were serious about eradicating the opium business.

Not really....they just regulated the market. The bigger problem is providing a way for the farmers to make a living. The same problem exists in MANY parts of the world.

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Germany and the Netherlands to name just two

I wouldn't say Germany "hates" us. France now...is a differen't story...of course they are assholes and they smell bad so who cares...

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Somehow it's different when you call someone by an epithet

That's quite natural actually. It's much easier to kill people if you demonize them first.

[Gawain 0]

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Germany and the Netherlands to name just two.

What specific freedoms does Germany and the Netherlands enjoy that the USA does not?

If I recall correctly, in Germany, you do not have freedom of speech or politics, especially as it relates to National Socialism. Also, isn't it mandatory for high-school graduates to join the armed forces for two-years before going to college? I made need serious corrections here...so chime in .

Netherlands...aside from drugs and prostitution...any other freedoms that I don't have here?

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[blueshrew 0]

Not Germany and Netherlands hate the US. Germany and Netherland have more freedom than the US.

Rrread, man, read

[Guest]

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I will look upon that region and culture much more differently, and always with more scrutiny than before.

No doubt; me too. You're saying what you're going to do. It invites thought, and a consideration of what each other person will do. Think, act.

Somehow it's different when you call someone by an epithet -- it's a little more likely to encourage others to take an agree, act type of approach. And simple agreement is not the same as consideration and thought.

Well, maybe if you're incapable of higher thought

Wendy W.

Believe it or not, I was once much more open-minded, and even apologetic for the Fundamentalist Moslem viewpoint. I saw it as a complex situation with no easy answers. I could see what I thought were legitimate reasons for their grievances, either with us, the Jews, or others.

Their actions on 9/11 changed all that.

You see, they live in a different reality over there. On the Arab street, they think Jews flew the jets into the buildings so that Moslems would be blamed.

I now see it as a simple us-versus-them issue.

Once that's been done, it's a short trip to dehumanizing and marginalizing "them". They are, after all, the enemy.

And you don't reason with your enemy.

You kill him.

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[blueshrew 0]

Never heard of any issues of freedom of speech or politics. But anytime I saw Americans around Berlin they were wide eyed at everything you could do here.
Hmmm... maybe that's just Berlin...
It always seems to me that only Americans would say that the freest country is US.
But seriously, everyone I've known that lived in both countries agreed on that. Maybe it is also the limits "society" puts on you in the US.
I'll ask some friends and get back to you.

But on the reverse, why do you think the US has more freedom than Germany or the Netherlands?

[Gawain 0]

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Never heard of any issues of freedom of speech or politics. But anytime I saw Americans around Berlin they were wide eyed at everything you could do here.
Hmmm... maybe that's just Berlin...
It always seems to me that only Americans would say that the freest country is US.
But seriously, everyone I've known that lived in both countries agreed on that. Maybe it is also the limits "society" puts on you in the US.
I'll ask some friends and get back to you.

But on the reverse, why do you think the US has more freedom than Germany or the Netherlands?

I don't know the answer to your reverse question...that's why I asked you first, and I ask again: What specific freedoms does Germany and the Netherlands enjoy that the USA does not? Also, is the compulsory military service in Germany a fact? You live in Germany don't you?

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[blueshrew 0]

Yeah, you theoretically would go if you're a guy, but there are a lot of things that can make you not have to go. You can do civil service instead. I know a guy who's coaching RW as his civil service. Basically, if you don't want to go, you won't.

But now, I got one. College and University is tuition free. So even if you have no money (and no way to pay off student loans in the future), you can still choose to go.
Oh, and the carry beer/wine in a brown bag thing, too (Is that really true, or just a rumor?).

[Gawain 0]

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Yeah, you theoretically would go if you're a guy, but there are a lot of things that can make you not have to go. You can do civil service instead. I know a guy who's coaching RW as his civil service. Basically, if you don't want to go, you won't.

All in all, it's compulsory though...no big deal, I'd rather choose not to have someone make the decision for me.

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But now, I got one. College and University is tuition free. So even if you have no money (and no way to pay off student loans in the future), you can still choose to go.
Oh, and the carry beer/wine in a brown bag thing, too (Is that really true, or just a rumor?).

True...college isn't free here (for the most part), but there are grants and scholarships up the wazoo...and student loans are widely accessible. Part of the free market economy I guess. As for the drinking in public...it's not a rumor, it's true. Though, since I don't drink I never really worried about it.

I didn't want to make a contest of it. Rather, I simply wanted to "see" for myself. Our society has its limits, we know. Just like here though, your "freedom" has a price...Free college, but before you can go, you have to contribute two years of civil service. Ours is less socialized, and I prefer that myself.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[blueshrew 0]

Actually, no you don't have to do a military service if you go to college. I know loads of people who did not, because they were in college, and after a certain age you don't have to anymore anyway.
But as I said, it appears only Americans would state the US as the freest country in the world, even Americans who've gotten both sides disagree to that.
In the end, it's how free you feel, I suppose.
Hell, I felt free living in Egypt, only restriction was my parents when I was still in school (but it wasn't hard to dodge them ).

[Gawain 0]

You took the words right off my keyboard... It is how free you feel.

Having lived nowhere else, but the USA, I am naturally tuned in with the way of life here. Whereas someone who grew up in the UK, or Canada, or Germany, would be dialed into that lifestyle, and most of everything outside of that would seem "alien".

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...even Americans who've gotten both sides disagree...

I believe that's one of our most important freedoms...

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Sinkster 0]

From what I understand though you do not have the same freedom to choose your college or area of study like we do in the USA. Is this correct?

I would rather work very hard to pay tuition and choose what and where I want to study than have my life decided for me and handed to me on a silver platter.

[fasterfaller 0]

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This thread is deeply troubling to me.
Shame on us all.

Betsy...I'm proud to have done my part to allow you, Steve, and all those Hollywood actors to live in a world where you can have this sort of attitude. I watched an interesting movie last night. It was called Salvador with James Woods. Watch it sometime. It's a true story. Very sad but true. Your US Military is just about the only thing standing between you and a life like that. You could also check out "The Killing Fields" which is also a true story. Things like that could EASILY happen right here in the good old USA if young men were not willing to do things like this to defend YOU.

[Schroeder 0]

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That's quite natural actually. It's much easier to kill people if you demonize them first.

Bingo. And this is what disturbs me.

[freeflir29 0]

Speaking of freedom in Germany......I have one word for you. Polizei. I don't have any personal experience as I have only spent about 14 days in Germany in my entire life. However, I have several friends that were stationed there in the military. They say the Polizei are pretty quick to rap you in the head with those hard rubber batons.

[blueshrew 0]

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From what I understand though you do not have the same freedom to choose your college or area of study like we do in the USA. Is this correct?

No that's not correct. You can choose where you wanna go. With some majors that are on high demand with limited seats, you may not get your first choice if your grades were bad. With all other majors, you just sign up, and you're in (providing you have a school degree, of course).
And if anyone is getting everything on a silver platter, it's not the German students.