What does the bible say?

[MrHixxx 0]

I've never heard of God or Jesus laying with a woman. Do you think maybe they are gay? I would love them anyway...

The bible is a group of writings compiled and edited over and over again by mostly men and some women involved with governments over the ages. What do you think that has done to the content? I really believe it has been inflected and perverted to reflect the desires of the ruling classes, enter the sexism, anti-homosexuality, ideas of obdience and order... To go beyond thinking of God as anything but a loving and accepting God who understands our foibles, but just wants us to be healthy and happy is kind of missing the point of spirituality to me. Burn your Bibles and embrace your friends.

-Hixxx

death,as men call him, ends what they call men
-but beauty is more now than dying’s when

[SpeedRacer 1]

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Burn your Bibles

try reading them first. you might be surprised.

Speed Racer
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[ernokaikkonen 0]

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When you explain how you are right about the "eye-for-an-eye" thing even though I gave you words from Jesus Christ Himself then I will interpret the passages for you.

"eye for an eye":
Exodus 21, 23-34 in particular? I understand these were supposed to be the words of God himself.

[MrHixxx 0]

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try reading them first. you might be surprised.

I have. I was. Then my concience had me think better of it...

death,as men call him, ends what they call men
-but beauty is more now than dying’s when

[Sinkster 0]

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"eye for an eye":
Exodus 21, 23-34 in particular? I understand these were supposed to be the words of God himself.

Yes. Now compare that to what Jesus said. This is part of what SpeedRacer was talking about concerning the old testament. Jesus brought the new covenant in and thus the "eye-for-eye" is abolished. "You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.' But I say to you, ‘Do not resist injuries ("evil" in KJV), but whoever strikes you on the right cheek turn to him the other as well’" (Matt. 5:38-29) (Jesus often quoted the old testament like that.)

[nathaniel 0]

http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/html/entry/troll.html

troll

1. v.,n. [From the Usenet group alt.folklore.urban] To utter a posting on Usenet designed to attract predictable responses or flames; or, the post itself. Derives from the phrase "trolling for newbies" which in turn comes from mainstream "trolling", a style of fishing in which one trails bait through a likely spot hoping for a bite. The well-constructed troll is a post that induces lots of newbies and flamers to make themselves look even more clueless than they already do, while subtly conveying to the more savvy and experienced that it is in fact a deliberate troll. If you don't fall for the joke, you get to be in on it. See also YHBT. 2. n. An individual who chronically trolls in sense 1; regularly posts specious arguments, flames or personal attacks to a newsgroup, discussion list, or in email for no other purpose than to annoy someone or disrupt a discussion. Trolls are recognizable by the fact that they have no real interest in learning about the topic at hand - they simply want to utter flame bait. Like the ugly creatures they are named after, they exhibit no redeeming characteristics, and as such, they are recognized as a lower form of life on the net, as in, "Oh, ignore him, he's just a troll." Compare kook. 3. n. [Berkeley] Computer lab monitor. A popular campus job for CS students. Duties include helping newbies and ensuring that lab policies are followed. Probably so-called because it involves lurking in dark cavelike corners.

Some people claim that the troll (sense 1) is properly a narrower category than flame bait, that a troll is categorized by containing some assertion that is wrong but not overtly controversial. See also Troll-O-Meter.

The use of `troll' in either sense is a live metaphor that readily produces elaborations and combining forms. For example, one not infrequently sees the warning "Do not feed the troll" as part of a followup to troll postings.

My advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski?

[CrazyThomas 0]

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I've never heard of God or Jesus laying with a woman. Do you think maybe they are gay? I would love them anyway...


-Hixxx

First off, God did not need to lay with a woman. He made man and woman. And he created the first sons, Cain and Abel. If you believe all the Bible stuff. Cain and Abel.....hmmmm....that could be another debate. not now.
Jesus? He was supposedly perfect. Maybe he didn't lay with a woman because he knew he was impotent, and could not/or should not reproduce. Therefore, sex was outlawed to him by his Father. And he obeyed his Father.

I did not mean to try to misconstrue the bible to fit my view point. Me? I could personally care less what anyone does. I have stated this before on blinc. "If you want to come give me a black eye, I'm right here. I'll even jump with you afterwards, if you're done giving me a black eye and stuff. Otherwise, I'm just gonna jump."
All I wanted to do was fuel the debate by introducing religion. It has worked. Much a debate on religion has been had.
Me? Follow Laws? I follow these laws:
1 Call the local
2 Respect your site
3 Never get caught
4 Be courteous and nice if caught
5 Never go to jail with a packed rig
6 always, ALWAYS call the sheriff's dispatch to let them know jumpers in the area (where applicable)
7 pick up garbage to show appreciation
8 Pay bills

Gay or Straight? I don't care. I have friends that are gay,straight, and BI. I like them because they are nice, and fun to talk out with.
I just wanted to twist things up by introducing a book (the Bible) that some people live by whole-heartedly, and some people burn it.
This whole gay or straight thing is nonesense anyways. Who started this debate? Gays or Straights? who cares. Let's just all accept each other for our good qualities, and learn to tolerate differences, or BAD qualities.
OK, SEX is a different post I will start.
so, let's talk about SEX!
Peace,
Thomas

[jtval 0]

haha hafta bring up George carlin here. I think there were 2 amendments! the rest were misconstrued by man! LOL he is a funny S.O.B!

My photos

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[Zenister 0]

you know i would be really interested in seeing which word they translated as "homosexual"

translation issues are yet another reason why i find no reason to accept the bible as the direct word of god.

for example find the word for 'one who poisons' and then tell me why it is STILL being translated as 'witch'..

now go write an apology to all the women persecuted, tortured and killed by over zealous (and overly literal) christians for hundreds of years because man does not really understand another’s cultural references..

as I said before the will of man is far to prevalent in the “word of god’ to be taken literally.

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Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[riddler 0]

I'll just chip in my one cent here. I wouldn't ever trust my entire belief structure to a book that was supposedly written thousands of years ago by people that may or may not have existed and supposedly witnessed incredible things that I never saw for myself. Note that I ain't singling out the Bible or Christians here - most religions have spiritual texts that are hundreds or thousand of years old and worship/praise/revere people that are long dead and not even related to them (with the exception of a few stories about the first man/woman etc).

But more to my point, I tend to trust what I see and experience for myself - even if it is fallible, it's probably closer to the truth than an old story. I don't even trust second-hand stories because I've seen the way people filter experiences. The only thing I can imagine around me that is anything like a god, if there is one, is reflected in nature - and the truth of our experiences, outside of our species, are probably most closely related to animals, since we are closer to animals than say: trees, or dirt.

Now anyone that says homosexuality is unnatural does not truly understand animals - it is a common occurrence in many species, and like humans, reflected in a percentage that practice it, temporarily or permanently, and those that do not. So my argument is, if there is a God, and she thinks homosexuality is wrong, then why do her creatures practice it? Are they sinners? Is there a Doggy Hell for canines that mount others of the same sex, not to mention the bestiality that could be construed from humping their favorite human's leg? And can dogs go to confession to redeem their sins? Was there a dog prophet that was God's dog that lived thousands of years ago and scribbled in long-lost kibble the Commandments (thou shalt not hump thine master's leg)? If this is the case, then there are truly more questions than answers, which begs the question - is religion really helping us, or making matters more confusing?

Anyway, I'm rambling because I did my 100th jump today and I'm still psyched about it, so I'll just pass the soapbox to the next person and I'm going to kick back and have a cold one.

Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD

[Zenister 0]

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Look for yourself, and you'll see what I mean. This doesn't even factor in all the prophecies made hundreds of years before their time that turned out to be true.

No one sane will deny that a man named Jesus walked the earth 2000 years ago and performed miracles (recorded by ancient historians) and was crucified and the tomb was found empty with no body. Factor in that Jesus was seen by at least 500 witnesses after his ressurection and factor in that all but one of the apostles was martyred for their faith (so they were'nt lying) and there is a pretty darn good case for Christ.

I’m perfectly sane (well except for the skydiving, free climbing wanna BASE jump soon parts
Claims by the author (the physical author unless your are going to claim god held the pen) are not a basis for fact. If I claim to be writing for you in this post are you speaking thru me?

There are in fact very few references to your Christ at all by historians of the same time period, who was one of many claiming to be the “savior”

500 witnesses? Do you have statements from them? No you have statements of the believers (who were creating a church of their own and so have very human agendas)

prophecy always appears true after the fact, it is usually written in such an ambiguous manner as to be open to a wide interpretation. (in addition if I were writing about you it isn’t difficult to document your life in a manner to “fulfill” prophecy either)

BTW dying for your beliefs is no proof of the truth said faith, it is only proof of your convictions. The early church had problems with this (heathens dying just as well as ‘good’ Christians) as do we now.

Do you think Islamic terrorists are ‘right’ because they are willing to blow themselves up for their beliefs?

I mean no disrespect but far to many people have never really examines the source for their beliefs with a critical eye. The bible contains many many contradictions about the character of god, as to be expected in any anthological work written over a long period of time and repeatedly edited in order to follow the churches dogma.

Do some research on the definition of canon, and ask why man has the right to edit the word of god. This calls the entire work into question. If god chose to speak to many thru literature her word is everywhere, not simply in the mythology of a single culture. (which is possibly the most violent culture on earth)

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Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[Gawain 0]

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This whole gay or straight thing is nonesense anyways. Who started this debate? Gays or Straights? who cares. Let's just all accept each other for our good qualities, and learn to tolerate differences, or BAD qualities.
OK, SEX is a different post I will start.
so, let's talk about SEX!
Peace,
Thomas

I agree. Plus there are distinct advantages to having friends across the sexual preference spectrum...I promised a friend of mine (who is gay) that I'd be at a special "party" for a professional move he was making. The party was in West Hollywood and I was the only hetero there. How is that a plus? Well, I got to meet the only hetero female and we had a grand time during and after the party (or her words were, "We're getting along famously!").

What is strange about all these debates is that those who vehimently oppose certain walks of life consistently overlook one thing: They are powerless to do anything about it. They then forget about simply following their faith on such matters and letting their Higher Power take care of business....

By they, as to who started the debate...didn't you start the thread?

Peace........

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[kmcguffee 0]

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To begin with it was written 50-70 years after the events allegedly happened. In fact there are NO outside sources other than the gospels (which are an obviously biased source) that even mention the events described in the gospels.

If we had four people independently tell the same story (except for small differences like the number of Angels in the tomb) about an event, how likely would it be that they are telling the truth? This is what happened with the Gospels. I'm sure you'll claim that they "conspired" and wrote them but history doesn't support that fact.

"Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin

[Zenister 0]

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To begin with it was written 50-70 years after the events allegedly happened. In fact there are NO outside sources other than the gospels (which are an obviously biased source) that even mention the events described in the gospels.

If we had four people independently tell the same story (except for small differences like the number of Angels in the tomb) about an event, how likely would it be that they are telling the truth? This is what happened with the Gospels. I'm sure you'll claim that they "conspired" and wrote them but history doesn't support that fact.

not so, but i will point out that who the actual authors were is subject to some questions and there is no real way to determine who wrote what when first, or how much they collaborated the fact (exact time period is disputed but the delay is not) that they were written MUCH after the events allegedly occurred raises some questions, do you think they would not have discussed the events with each other???....i'll have to find it again, but i recall a (Christian actually) historian who claimed based on writing styles (detail, sentence structure, word repetition.. etc) that Mathew(?*) was the prime source and the rest were copied

* have to verify my claim there but my library is in PHX and I am not..i'll see what i can find online for you

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Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[mikkif 0]

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Mathew(?*) was the prime source and the rest were copied

There is a document called "The Q" that is the source for much of the material in the first four books of the new testament, I believe, although each has stuff added/deleted/borrowed, and the others have their own checkered history. Layer on that the translation issues, and it becomes quite a riddle.

BTW, the Q is reverse-engineered. They have no actual copies of it.

Freedom -- Expression -- Spirit

[kmcguffee 0]

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but i recall a (Christian actually) historian who claimed based on writing styles (detail, sentence structure, word repetition.. etc) that Mathew(?*) was the prime source and the rest were copied

That is a nice theory (I've heard it) but most historians disagree with him. There are doubts and inconsistencies and differing opinions on the Bible just like with any other historical writing that is 2,000 years old. You either choose to believe or not. God has given you that right. It is said more than once in the Bible that you have to believe on faith alone. If you could prove the existance of God you wouldn't need faith.

"Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin

[Zenister 0]

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You either choose to believe or not. God has given you that right. It is said more than once in the Bible that you have to believe on faith alone. If you could prove the existance of God you wouldn't need faith.

your exactly right, what i chose to believe is that god would not limit her exposure to a single culture. I have no issues accepting the existence of the divine. Christian dogma on the other hand, i find far to self-serving (to the needs of man)

i have no need of the blood of their carpenter, i was not raised in a culture of guilt and have never been separated from god. (you wouldn’t believe the look on my Sunday school teacher face when I said that once
Far to much religious dogma (of all types) exists solely as a means of controlling the masses. With the christian its even engrained in the metaphors they use to name themselves.

Sheep. In need of a shepherd and afraid to walk the night, I have faith in my path, so long as I walk it without honestly and without intention.

My issues are not so much with christians, but with the rhetoric that ‘damns’ me because I do not share the same belief.

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Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[DZBone 0]

Gosh, I think to look at the Bible as a historical document is fascinating stuff, but intellectual, not spiritual. I try to keep the two aspects separate, because while each has huge value, they don't interact well.

If you toss the bible because it may or may not be "true", you lose a great literary work that has a lot to teach us about ourselves, each other and the world.

If you believe it is "the hand of God" and to be taken strictly, literally and not challenged, then you are going to miss the real messages. There are too many inconsistencies and areas open to (mis)interpretation for that to ever work. You end up wasting your time in debates about whether God condemns homosexuality or not. You're never going to get it resolved looking at this passage or that. Clearly, the passages posted (assuming correct translation, which is risky) say god abhores it, yet that seems massively in contrast to everything that Jesus is supposed to have said and taught.

In wisdom, there are no answers, only better questions.

My deconstructivist approach to getting my hands around this book is to assume the Old Testament is mostly irrelevant, yet worth taking a look at. The New Testament I see as a poorly-transcribed account of someone who seemed quite amazing, and basically said that we should stop being such anal-retentive boobs and love each other, as God loves us, which he really, really does, even if we are assholes and could give two shits about him.

I was raised in a pretty liberal (like you couldn't guess) Protestant household and church, which we went to every week, but in my life now is no regular belonging. I'm also becoming more interested in what the animistic (sp?) and nature-based religions/philosophies have to tell us. Not the Gia/Earth-based spirits and all that, but what about us as natural beings can tell us about out spirituality, that sort of thing.

But to get back on topic (probably should have posted this under leomonst's post), of course the Christian God does not think homosexuality is wrong. He sent is only Son to tell us that he is Love, and that to honor Him is to respect his authority and to love ourselves and each other. The rest is all us narrow-minded humans trying to advance our own agendas, basically in disrespect to the God of Love.

Peace.

_________________________________________________
If you hadn't read this, would it have made a sound?

[seedy 0]

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There is a document called "The Q" .........BTW, the Q is reverse-engineered. They have no actual copies of it.

So anytime I want to disprove something all I have to do is cite some non-existent text!

How convenient.

Josh McDowell wrote two very good books discussing the origin of the Bible. Evidence That Demands A Verdict and More Evidence That Demands A Verdict.

I intend to live forever -- so far, so good.

[kmcguffee 0]

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So anytime I want to disprove something all I have to do is cite some non-existent text!

Yeah, that guy from Star Trek The Next Generation wrote it then named it after himself. You know....Q.

"Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin

[skygirlpc 0]

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...They then forget about simply following their faith on such matters and letting their Higher Power take care of business....

Funny to me, that those of us that do just sit back loving the sinners and hating the sin, letting God take care of such matters, get overlooked and no credit because of the few (in comparison) loonys out there that take God and His word totally out of context!

Sorry for the rant! I just get really upset that all "Christians" get grouped together with any murderer or hate group claiming they are christian! The Christ that I proudly label myself by is a God of love, yes a God of order, but also a God of love! He is a God of free will, not one of making people do something His way, but a God that loved us enough to give everybody the choice to how they live!

Danielle

[lewmonst 0]

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I'll just chip in my one cent here. I wouldn't ever trust my entire belief structure to a book that was supposedly written thousands of years ago by people that may or may not have existed and supposedly witnessed incredible things that I never saw for myself.

amen to that.


i believe in free speech.

http://www.exitshot.com

[Gawain 0]

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...They then forget about simply following their faith on such matters and letting their Higher Power take care of business....

Funny to me, that those of us that do just sit back loving the sinners and hating the sin, letting God take care of such matters, get overlooked and no credit because of the few (in comparison) loonys out there that take God and His word totally out of context!

Sorry for the rant! I just get really upset that all "Christians" get grouped together with any murderer or hate group claiming they are christian!

You missed the first part of that paragraph I wrote which said:

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What is strange about all these debates is that those who vehimently oppose certain walks of life consistently overlook one thing: They are powerless to do anything about it.

I didn't clump the "Christians" all together, though I know that is easy to do with any religion.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[freaksister 0]

One of the types of threads I wish we didn't have on here. The title just turned me off. I can have this discussion with my grandmother or any stoned person. I believe what I believe and all I will say is that I am not atheist and I do consider myself a Christian, but that's as far as I am going here. Well,except to say that I am probably a horrible sinner!

[DZBone 0]

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except to say that I am probably a horrible sinner!

Don't sell yourself short. You are a great sinner!

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If you hadn't read this, would it have made a sound?