Homo thread II

[freeflir29 0]

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If one is gay, there action is not opposite of there preference, and I do not feel that is wrong

WOW....that's a new one on me!!!

[cgross 1]

Vallerina again...you misspoke. I can judge whom ever I wish I have that right. I also have the right to discriminate. I know you may not like this fact, but the constitution allows many things that both you and I dissagree with.

Chris

[wmw999 2,447]

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I can judge whom ever I wish I have that right. I also have the right to discriminate.

Give the man a cigar. He's right. I think he also knows that these actions and thoughts (if communicated) come with consequences. Such is life. If not, then when he complains about it it's called whining.

Each person carves out their piece of life, and others react when the piece impinges on theirs. And the nature of life is that each person will impinge on others sometimes. How we deal with that is civilization. Dang, wasn't that deep?

Wendy W.

Edit: don't forget, we each have the right to pay no attention whatsoever to this point of view. Isn't this fun?

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[freeflir29 0]

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Dang, wasn't that deep?

It's OK...I have hip waders.....

[narcimund 0]

Well guys, I think we have a conclusion: Each of you is either STRICTLY gay or STRICTLY straight. Additionally, it is morally WRONG for you to cross over and perform a sexual act that is not according to your genetic orientation.

So here's everyone's assignment. Discover your true nature then live according to it.

I'm going to go away and smile over this one.

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[happythoughts 0]

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I'm going to go away and smile over this one.

Oh, great...something else I have to think about. If I smile too, does that make me gay? The rules are getting so confusing.

[cgross 1]

Well, i am glad you coming around to my side See, us straight people convert gays too... I am just kidding of course. I hope i have not offended too many people, that was not my intent. Just wanted to speak my mind.

Narcimund, i will answer the questions you asked, bu this thing has become so tangentle it is difficult for me to keep one train of though while defending my view from so many sides.

I have to say it has turned out to be a good discussion... Who thought it would get this big?

Chris

[freeflir29 0]

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Additionally, it is morally WRONG for you to cross over and perform a sexual act that is not according to your genetic orientation

Yeah....so is accepting $36M dollars for said act......but I think I could live with it.

[cgross 1]

Wendy,

though I am sure you do not share my view on this topic, thank you for defending my civil liberties!!!!

[SpeedRacer 1]

cgross,

welcome back! I was still wondering why you prefer the "black and white" model of sexual orientation to the "spectrum" model. I think the spectrum model more closely describes the observed phenomena. (ref. my posts above).

Speed Racer
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[gale 0]

I am sorry that you didn't respond to my last post. I think it reflects an accurate portrayal of at least one bisexual (me) and I would like to know what you think of it.

Gale

I'm drowning...so come inside
Welcome to my...dirty mind

[freeflir29 0]

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I think the spectrum model more closely describes the observed phenomena

And apparently the basis for all those rainbow insignias.

[mikkif 0]

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please read my last statement... you obviously do not understand what i am saying.

So a search for this phrase on the Internet, you will see it is usually made by someone losing an argument. I had a friend who used to say "No, you're not thinking correctly!' whenever he got flustered. That when I knew I had him.

I understand what you are saying, and I agree with (and will fight to the death for) your right to define morality for yourself any way you want. However, you make a blanket statement that bisexuality is "WRONG". I didn't read that as WRONG for you personally, you seemed to make the statement as a blanket truth about human beings.

OK, so that's your opinion, so what? You claim that you don't care what people do in their homes. Well, do you care if bisexuals do the same things in public (and are given the same other basic human and civil rights) as straights, and I guess, gays? Can they hold hands, make out in the park, get married, hold joint checking accounts? Do you really not care about how they act as a matter of principle, and only object on a personal moral basis, for yourself and your own actions?

I leave you the opportunity to say that you do not, and if so I will be truly impressed.

But still, no BJs for you! I wouldn't want to corrupt your personal sense of morality.

Seriously though, just know that those you influence may not have the same elevated sense of the split between personal morality and civil rights, so the voicing of your opinion can lead to oppression and worse.

Love to all.

Mikki

P.S. I am truly sorry if this is getting to deep and serious here. I'm still new here, and just want to have fun with you guys. I just can't help jumping on stuff like this sometimes. Trolls love me.

Freedom -- Expression -- Spirit

[SudsyFist 0]

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But still, no BJs for you! I wouldn't want to corrupt your personal sense of morality.

i'd just like to state, for the record, that i have absolutely no personal sense of morality.

perris, hmm?

steve

[Scoby 0]

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And apparently the basis for all those rainbow insignias.

I'm so used to seeing rainbows on cars that I thought those little rainbows on frap hats meant the skydiver was gay. Then I noticed pretty much all the frap hats had 'em on...

[SudsyFist 0]

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I'm so used to seeing rainbows on cars

yeah, west hollywood city vehicles, including police cars (true story).

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I thought those little rainbows on frap hats meant the skydiver was gay. Then I noticed pretty much all the frap hats had 'em on...

notice how you only see frap hats on belly flyers???

steve

[skymama 37]

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'cause I'm just a homo.

Plus, you're such a lovable homo too! And I'm not just saying that because you're my future husband who's going to marry me for my money and who won't mind when I have sex with the pool boy.

She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man,
because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon

[Scoby 0]

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I'm so used to seeing rainbows on cars

yeah, west hollywood city vehicles, including police cars (true story).

Did you know that here in West Hollywood, there is a street called Dicks St.? And the rents are higher because it's fashionable to have an address that is:

XXX Dicks St.
West Hollywood, CA 90069

[cgross 1]

Quote"However, you make a blanket statement that bisexuality is "WRONG". I didn't read that as WRONG for you personally, you seemed to make the statement as a blanket truth about human beings. "
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Mikkif - Page 4 first post I make clear that everything I am say is in "my" view.

Now in relation to this:
I leave you the opportunity to say that you do not, and if so I will be truly impressed.


This is the truth now so listen up.
When I walk down the street, I pass judgement on everything (in my head, not out loud) You do and I do it, everyone has oppinions and thoughts about everything we see, good or bad. If I were to see two guys kissing or holding hands, I could not pass a judgement of disgust like I stated earlier, because I have no knowledge of there sexual orientation. As I have stated, if one is Gay, there behavior is gay, and that does not bother me. I am sure you have read what does bither me.

But let us just say I knew for fact that a couple making-out in front of me in public were Bi-sexual. Yes, that would bother me, BUT, I would not openly say or do anything to show that. Why? Because it is their right to behave how they want whether it offends me or not.

Just the same as my views offend some here. I respect a persons right to live their life how they choose, just as i wish people to respect mine. Again, my only rule is "not in my house". I hope you respect that. My parents had a similar rule (which I broke) it had to do with sex in the house. My excuse was that i wsa young and I didn't know better.

I digress... sorry.

So anyway, I am a somewhat conservative person, it depends on the topic, but i lean a bit right... But I am a big supporter of civil lib's.

I also belive abortion is OK (this goes against my conservative nature) But hey.. what someone else does to their property is up to them, as long as it does not maliciously hurt me.

Chris

[mikkif 0]

Thanks, Chris. Very clear. Just feel free not to vote.

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I also belive abortion is OK (this goes against my conservative nature)

Heh. I think this is a difficult one for most real conservatives. It's a third-rail issue brought in by religious extremists, and is against the "government out of my life" feeling most conservatives have. This is a general problem with politics. Issues exist in multiple dimensions, yet we are supposed to be either "left" or "right". Don't get me started on the two flavors of vanilla the major political parties serve us.

Personally, I'm like a majority of Americans: socially liberal (Europeans, no laughing!), and conservative on market issues, although I am feeling a bit let down by the "referees" lately...

Freedom -- Expression -- Spirit

[cgross 1]

I am glad to see this this not ending in an argument, and I was able to say what I felt and have people understand they are my views.. not right or wrong, but my beliefs. I have respected everyone elses, and you seem to have respected mine.

Let me say: to a few questions in here I am neglecting to answer. One is the life being black and white issue. I am purposely avoiding that question cuz i think it is for another time.. This would just become too long and drawn out, and I have turned off enough people for one day.

Thanks for good discussion people, I am sure we will find more to talk about.

Chris

[SpeedRacer 1]

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Let me say: to a few questions in here I am neglecting to answer. One is the life being black and white issue.

ok but I think it is a pivotal issue, which is why i have brought it up, now 3 times. But I tried to bring it up not as a moral or emotional issue, but simply as a scientific issue: i.e., what evidence did you find that caused you to arrive at the model of black & white vs. the model of a graded spectrum when it comes to sexual orientation?

see, this is pivotal as a scientific issue re. what would cause someone to have the desire to "experiment" with sex w/ someone of the same sex.

I wonder about this because I grew up in an environment that was very open & accepting to alternative sexual relationships w/those of the same sex, and yet I, at the age of 38, have never felt sexual urges towards another man. Yet I have friends who say they're bisexual, and that they can feel sexual attraction towards another individual regardless of their genitalia. Within me, however, I've noticed a total abhorrence to sexual feelings towards other men, although I recognize the logic of what the bisexuals are saying. So despite all the "influence" from the arty intellectual crowds I've hung out with, its just not in me to "experiment". I don't care if it's Brad Pitt, I just don't feel myself getting a stiffy, and the need for being "cool" or iconoclastic isn't going to change that.

So that's what leads me to believe that sexual orientation is a spectrum & not black or white. If you have any other evidence to refute it please post it. I'm not carrying this on with a moral agenda, purely as a scientific one.

Speed Racer
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[jfields 0]

I totally agree with Speed Racer. The B&W vs Grey issue is fundamental to the discussion.

If you view sexuality as strictly homosexual and heterosexual, then a lot of people are going outside their defined roles. If you believe in a spectrum model, then most people are probably true to their desires.

Some people are 100% straight, with no attraction whatsoever to the same sex. Some people are 100% homosexual, with no attraction to the opposite sex. Then there is a chunk in the middle, to varying degrees from either extreme. It could be that somebody is attracted more to one gender than the other, but sees something in each, without ever acting on it. It could be that they do act on it in certain circumstances.

I think it is probably a bell-curve type of thing. If you think of heterosexually predisposed as the center of the curve, it is where the most people are. Then you move outwards to hetero people that have some minimal interest in their own sex. It is a smaller number of people. Then you have homesexuals, etc. And a million other variations. Out at the fringe, you have people like Clay. They generally like women, but get attracted to sheep when the moonlight hits them just right out by the barn on a crisp night. (Sorry. Humor break.)

What I think happens is that societal pressure makes the curve uneven. If someone's urges are only very slight bit away from one fundamental leaning, they probably won't act on it because it may upset their tidy world. If the societal pressure would ease up, at lot more people would feel comfortable expressing their sexuality. We've only scratched the surface of possibilities in this thread so far. Straight, gay and bi are only a few major groups. The bell curve I mentioned would be more three-dimensional, with gender attraction as one axis. There are all sorts of other dispositions that would fall on the other. Things like S&M, polyamory, bondage, body part fetishes, exhibitionism, etc. The list is long and varied. Each person has some combination of traits. It isn't even necessarily fixed throughout a person's life. For some people, it may be, but for others, it can change substantially over the years.

We aren't all the same, and we don't all live static lives. And that is a good thing. The interaction between groups lends both flavor and possibility that enhances both. For example, exhibitionist lesbians, and the guys that love to watch them. Need I say more? It's all good.

[cgross 1]

To Speedracer and jfields:

I know what you are saying, but the reason I am keeping quite, is because my opinions on the matter, and what I Think about the black and white with very little gray world will offend many people.

My object here is not to make everyone like me, but at the same time I do not wish to alienate myself. See Wend W.'s comments. Everything we say and do has consequences, and this discussion may IMO piss off many people.

This is a friendly forum, and I do not wish to push away potential friends.

I can hae these views of the world, and be friends with people even if I don't agree with their lifestyle. To me it is wrong, and I make those judgement to myself, but it doesn't mean the person is "BAD" and I would never talk to them.

So, in that sence I am not a bigot or ignorant, because I am tolorant even though I don't agree with things. If i push this conversation on, people may get a bit angry with the way i see the world, and never again give me the time of day. And that is not my purpose.

I will simple say I pretty much see the world almost all in Black and White, on occasion I do however see some shades of gray, just not very often.

Chris

[freeflir29 0]

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notice how you only see frap hats on belly flyers???

Of course.....cause belly flying is gay.