Homo thread II

[freeflir29 0]

And so the dead horse was FINALLY left to rot in peace.....

[gale 0]

"I can say with certainty that you would not be EQUALLY happy with a man or a woman. One person will make you happy and others will not be able to contend"

I sure hope this happens. My point is that this person is equally likely to be a man as it is to be a woman.

"When you find that one person, there will be no straying (In a perfect world). Thus, you will no longer be able to call yourself "Bi"... Not actively anyway."

Well, this is more semantics then anything but I consider myself bisexual no matter who I am with. Activity has nothing to do with it. You can be a virgin and still know you're heterosexual, and call yourself hererosexual.

"The just weren't programmed into you when you were conceived."

Well, tough to say. I don't think my love of skydiving was programmed into me when I was conceived either, but it's still real and a part of who I am. Whuffos may not understand or identify with it but it doesn't make it any less valid.

"You don't have innate sexual attractions for both sexes"

Hm, don't know what to say there other then you're just wrong. I don't know why you think you can speak for me, but you can't. I'm not sure why it is that you think you know me better then I know myself.

Gale

I'm drowning...so come inside
Welcome to my...dirty mind

[cgross 1]

thank you for that statement that is what i had tried to say earlier, but was unable to say it so clearly.

Chris

[cgross 1]

Ok, I wasn't going to get back inot the debate but it looks like it is getting fun again...



Chris

[Mindcake 0]

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"However, this does not change the fact that HomoSapiens are "mate-for-life"! That is what the majority of us do naturally... not by choice. " .

Peer pressure

Jim

Don´t belive the hype

[Zenister 0]

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Humans are "Mate-for-life" animals! There is no denying that! Though some cultures have allowed bigamy to occure, Naturally, the human being is made to find a partner and stick with that partner for life...

nope, monogamy is strictly a cultural institution. if not for social pressures otherwise i think we would have long since revived the 'family marriage' concept.

if 2 can form a life long bond that is mutually beneficial, why not 3, 6, 10? each individual brings something else to the relationship, anyone that thinks they can be everything for anyone is severely deluded (and probably being 'cheated' on)

the problems occur with jealousy and honest, both of which are culturally ingrained, but can also be changed

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[quatorze 1]

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My gosh but you're awfully certain of your ridiculous ideas!

My opinions are wonderful things aren't they. I am only making this one post to this thread and then I am done. First let me state that my opinions/ideas/feelings are not the reason for the following statement.

"The freedom to swing my fist ends, where your nose begins" Thomas Jefferson
"I may disagree with what you say, but I will fight to the death to defend your right to say it" Voltaire

With that said, everyone stop and look what is happening, one side of this argument is telling the other that they are blatantly wrong and that their opinions are wrong and vice-a-versa. Wrong or right who are we to judge? It is their opinion.
Why do we feel the need to change their beliefs? Or does the fact that the people trying to facilitate the changing fall into a minority in today's society make their opinion right and the rest of the world (i.e. the majority) wrong? Seems to be the case. I just can not see how people so "open minded" can summarily tell someone that theie opinion is wrong. Can't happen, an opinion is just that, neither wrong nor right. So, since I have been in a homosexual club (I refuse to use the terms gay and straight, since using "straight" implies that gay is "crooked") and been introduced as "Christian, my straight friend, but he is really cool for being straight.", does that free me to reverse the situation if I happen to take my friend to a hetero-club, "hey, guys this is Billy, he is really cool for being Gay and all." Nope, nadda, not in this lifetime, why, because a minority of the population's opinion seems to be right and sanctifies them to tell the rest of the populace what to think. As I said, I refuse to get into the pros/cons, rights/wrongs of human sexuality, but I must say that everyone on this thread who has screamed up and down for personal freedoms, should realize that my, ours, them and their freedoms are just as valuable as ours. Everyone take a time out and think, are you really being as receptive to the ideas of others as you would like to believe, or have you already judged them because of what they believe?

Just a thought,
peace be unto you all
Christian

Just for you Clay, "They finally let the dead horse lie"


And now back to mindless postwhoring

I'm not afriad of dying, I'm afraid of never really living- Erin Engle

[narcimund 0]

Read my post and what it was referring to more closely, please. I'm not disputing opinions. I'm disputing erroneous statements of fact.

It can be an opinion that something is or isn't nice or moral or appealing or revolting. It's a statement of fact, however, that a thing is or isn't true.

My scoffing was at someone's statements which are overreaching, undereducated, and to be blunt, wrong. He attempted to make objective statements about things he has no information about and I do not pretend to respect those claims as valid on an individual basis.

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[freebird 0]

Humans are "Mate-for-life" animals***
Yes but our ability to control ourselves and progress separates us from the animals and ultitmately we are much more than what we perceive ourselves to be.

[quatorze 1]

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awfully certain of your ridiculous ideas

I am sexy as hell, I may not be to you, but what right to you have to judge my ideas anymore than anyone has a right to judge yours?

I understand the meaning of your statement for what it was worth, but the "ridiculous ideas" part bothered me, it seemed a little high and mighty IMHO. The rest of the post was directed at everyone not just you, and your statement that I qouted, was one of many like it, made by many people on both sides of the argument, more on the pro bisexual idea than on the other, but both sides none the less. I am sorry that you took it as my attcking you, but it was the closet statement of the type for me to dig up.

Still I am concerned by the fact that, these statements seem more prevalent on the pro-bi side then the others, it seems to me, as I have read this thread since the beginning, that for some reason that side of the argument feels some sort of enlightenment, that there is no way for any one on the other side of the argument to possibly be anywhere near the vicinity of being correct. I guess what I am trying to get at for both sides is if you ask for tolerance, you should happily give tolerance to others opinions.

Cheers and think good thoughts

I'm not afriad of dying, I'm afraid of never really living- Erin Engle

[mikkif 0]

Well, I think the debate has been spirited, but mostly civil. It has crossed the line just enough to make it interesting, but if we went to far (or, if I went too far, I speek for no one else), then I am sorry.

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but what right to you have to judge my ideas anymore than anyone has a right to judge yours?

Well, I think this is a legitimate thing to do, a point Chris made. We all judge ideas and opinions, we can't help it. It's only when we try to suppress or distort them that it is unhealthy. I certainly deny no one their right to their opinions, but I'll work like hell to try to change them!

What is allowed is attacking ideas, not attacking people.

I'm not sure where biting sarcsm falls, but if I've hurt anyone, I'm truly sorry.

Mikki

Freedom -- Expression -- Spirit

[FliegendeWolf 0]

Yeah, that's pretty much what I'm talking about.

A One that Isn't Cold is Scarcely a One at All

[quatorze 1]

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Well, I think this is a legitimate thing to do, a point Chris made. We all judge ideas and opinions, we can't help it

True, I guess that I didn't present myself correctly, I mean at what point in time do your ideas become right and mine wrong, they don't they are opinions. Those are our rights. Ted Nugent (who I am not real fond of, but respect him for his honesty said it best) "I can like, dislike anyone or anything that I want, good or bad, for any reason and no one has the power to change that, that is my right" or something like that

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I certainly deny no one their right to their opinions, but I'll work like hell to try to change them!

And that is your right, but how would you feel if those same people were to try like hell to change yours. Tolerance, if asked for, should also be readily given, IMHO, sorta to each his own type thing.

Love first, Judge last

I'm not afriad of dying, I'm afraid of never really living- Erin Engle

[mikkif 0]

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And that is your right, but how would you feel if those same people were to try like hell to change yours.

It totally turns me on! It's like great competitive sport. Cut-throat, play to win, but by the rules and share a beer afterwards.

Maybe I'm sick, but I prefer that someone argues with me full bore, knock-down-drag-out style than says "yeah, whatever" and walks away. I learn more and expand my horizons more that way. Painfully, sure, but a lot of growth comes from pain.

Didn't you quote Voltaire? Those are brilliant words!

But that's just my opinion, I might be wrong.


Beer?

Freedom -- Expression -- Spirit

[quatorze 1]

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Maybe I'm sick, but I prefer that someone argues with me full bore, knock-down-drag-out style than says "yeah, whatever" and walks away. I learn more and expand my horizons more that way. Painfully, sure, but a lot of growth comes from pain.

I can agree to an extent but in the case of this thread, it seemed that some feelings were getting rather trampled on both sides of the playing field, up to the point of, I am this way and you are that so what ever you think is wrong, because for some reason God/Yaweh/Allah/Ra/Budda/Odin (runing out of dieties here) has bestowed on my the true enlightenment. Hence the people who were talikg about the importance of tolerance and openmindedness were displaying the least amount. It seems that the posters protraying the hetero-WASP point of view, were more often than not back tracking to prevent being called hate-mongers, or homophobes, or closed minded, something that our society has come to condone as of late. Being somewhat of a self-proclaimed open minded person myself, I saw the double standard set forth in the original "It's a black thing, you wouldn't understand" T-shirts, and the fact that white hetero-middle class males seem to be the brunt of the joke on almost every comedy/comedic act/ and now even society seems to have jumped on the wagon. That is where I saw this thread going and what brought me to join the fray. I fall only into the white hetero, class, don't think that I will ever make it all the way up to middle class, but I also believe that to each his own, I'll live my life the way I see fit, you live yours, leave me be and I'll reciprocate, people are people, good or bad, they just are.

IMHO, The WASP's opinions are correct, the same as yours and Narci's and skydivechick are correct, that is the purpose of opinions. None are right and none are wrong, we are all allowed to feel teh way we wish, about anything we chose. Personally, I don't like people who tie their shoes wrong, but that is me

I'm not afriad of dying, I'm afraid of never really living- Erin Engle

[mikkif 0]

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Personally, I don't like people who tie their shoes wrong, but that is me

Ooooh, I know it! Doesn't that make you just want to reach down there and re-tie them!


(the sound of the last whisp of flesh dropping from the horse's carcass)

Freedom -- Expression -- Spirit

[cgross 1]

OK I am back into it, and I really only have one point to make. It isn't even a point, it is a reitteration of what was said.

The whole deal with going to a gay bar and a friend saing.. "~he is cool for a straight guy~"

This IMO is a very disturbing trend, and this is the reason I first chimed in on this thread. If you read the first thing I wrote, it had to do with the reverse discrimination minorities feel is "OK"

Minority groups such as black, gays, and even some polital groups seem to have the impression that discrimination only exists if it is against them. I hate affirmative action, because it is "legal" discrimination.

It is true, if I brought a gay person into a mainly "straight" environment and made a comment such as... " this is John, he's cool for a gay guy." This would cause a freakin war. Or I brought a black guy into a rich upscale WHITE party and introduced him as you know, cool for a black guy.

See, it doesnt work both ways, QUATORZE is right, and this is a non debatable fact in my mind. Practice what you preach.

"You all don't know what it's like, being male middle class and white."
Thats gonig to be my new quote.

Chris

[Muenkel 0]

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You all don't know what it's like, being male middle class and white."

[raising hand]Um...I do.[/raising hand]

_________________________________________
Chris

[cgross 1]

you can join my club of oppressed white middle class males then. I have to come up with a good name for it. Any thoughts???

Chris

[Muenkel 0]

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you can join my club of oppressed white middle class males then. I have to come up with a good name for it. Any thoughts???

Yeah, "Whiners"

Actually, I have never felt oppressed. If anyone has been oppressive to me, it has been myself and sometimes my self-imposed limitations. I really have been very fortunate in my life...Great family, great friends, excellent education, good jobs (well mostly), excellent medical care when needed, always a roof over my head and food on the table. Considering the state of the world these days, if I was to complain, I would say I am pretty shallow.

Chris

_________________________________________
Chris

[goose491 0]

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Actually, I have never felt oppressed.....

I was going to say the same thing but then I realized that I have indeed been the butt of discrimmination based on being a young white male... The only benefit "we" do have is the increased ability to blow it off... This wont last another generation I'm sure.

My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!

[SpeedRacer 1]

hmmm well I don't mind a good heated argument. It's just that I asked the same question in three posts thruout this thread, and no one answered it, so I was starting to sound like a broken record. So that's why I finally posted "aaah, fuck it" because, as Clay pointed out, this dead horse is starting to smell really bad.

oh shit, i wish I could have answered this without bumping it up to the top again.

>

Speed Racer
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[FliegendeWolf 0]

Well, for the record, speedracer, I am in complete agreement with your spectrum model.

A One that Isn't Cold is Scarcely a One at All

[cgross 1]

I am omniscient, and I say he is wrong!

[FliegendeWolf 0]

Well, I am impotent and say he's... Oops. Freudian slip.

P.S. Omnipotent means all powerful, omniscient means all knowing.

A One that Isn't Cold is Scarcely a One at All