Need Opinions on Gear Selections

[aphotic 0]

I'm going to list all the factors to the gear I've selected and then what I currently feel works, it all revolves around the fact that I'm getting the main used from another jumper at my DZ.

• 155 lbs
• 5' 8"
• 39 Total jumps
• I've been renting a 9-cell 190 (forgot what model canopy for the moment :/, dam winter) and have had good stand-ups with it a few times, I feel well acquainted with it's "size".
------------------------------------------------
• New Mirage G4
• Used Main: PD Storm 170 (7-cell)
• New AAD: Cypres
• New Reserve: EITHER
Preferred: An M2 sized G4 with a 160 PD Optimum
An M3 sized G4 with a 160 PD Reserve

From what I've read on here, the Optimum seems to be the better choice, and it'll be a slightly smaller container.

[J-Rock 0]

The best advice I could give you is to NOT buy a new container. A reserve, yes, an AAD, yes but with 39 jumps I wouldnt sink all that money into a container that will not fit that canopy you will want in a season or two. I was (and still am) able to find great used rigs, some with little to no jumps on them that look great and fit me. There are so many people out there that get off of their student status and buy a brand new rig, put a few hundred jumps on it and realize they cant fit that little elliptical in it As for the smaller M2 container, if you are packing for yourself and still learning the M2 will make it a little more difficult for you to fit a 170 in there without much frustration. It may be a little easier to learn on a bigger container, especially if you are new to packing. The Optimum reserve is a great reserve and is a component along with the Cypres that can be moved to a new rig when you downsize (if you plan on it). Again, if you want a brand spaking new rig thats fine but give me ring in a year or so and Ill give you half of what you paid new for it. Use that money for jump tickets

Im gonna need a bigger hammer....

[aphotic 0]

I've contemplated this exact reasoning for a little while. I've hesitated ordering for three weeks because of it. Though there is one thing about it. I'm 19, and have a great entry level job now. Once I've made all major vestments into the sport, and have satisfied my urge to jump a lot. (Maybe 2 years, and afterwards will jump only maybe 4 times per week). At that point, I may consider getting a part time job, and focusing on school/freelance work.

That aside, I'm also not huge on downsizing, I'm actually a little nervous for the 170. I'll also, when ready, be able to downsize to a new Sabre II 135 (It'll fit softly according to the Mirage chart).

As for packing, when comparing the M2 and M3 sizing chart, they are almost identical for main sizes. It seems to only make a difference for reserves. Not sure if you were aware, or if I'm just ignorant upon how it will be (as of course I haven't actually seen the difference).



Thanks for bringing this up, most of the fellow jumpers at the DZ have made the same point.

[mahonie10 0]

I say if you can afford a new container and thats what you want to do, go for it. It's your money, I did the same exact thing you listed. I bought a new Mirage M2, the PD optimum 160 is listed as optimal fit in the M2, So your good there. As for mains you should be able to get a few years out of it I have a Storm 170 in mine, again this is listed as a optimal fitting canopy because it packs about the same as the 9-cell mains such as Sabre2 150 or Safire2 149 etc. Then you could go 1 downsize further on the 9-cells with a "soft fit". So you could easily get three diffrent canopies sizes out of one container and never be over stuffed. That was my thinking when putting my kit together.

[J-Rock 0]

One of the reasons I said to get a used rig first is the fact you said in your first post that you have been renting a 190 and have had "a few stand up landings". Since we dont know your experience as a jumper or canopy pilot, I would listen to what your fellow jumpers have to say at your DZ. Ive seen several newer jumpers show up in the spring with brand new gear only to land off and slide into a muddy corn field. Then post on here wanting to know how to clean all their new gear I bought my first rig from a guy that did the same thing, bougt a new right, put 100 jumps on it and wanted something smaller. I took the almost $1700 I saved and paid for my first full season of jumping. I used the rig for two seasons, sold it for what I paid for it and bought a new rig which I still own. Just my experience, have fun, be safe

Im gonna need a bigger hammer....

[aphotic 0]

Quote

I say if you can afford a new container and thats what you want to do, go for it. It's your money, I did the same exact thing you listed. I bought a new Mirage M2, the PD optimum 160 is listed as optimal fit in the M2, So your good there. As for mains you should be able to get a few years out of it I have a Storm 170 in mine, again this is listed as a optimal fitting canopy because it packs about the same as the 9-cell mains such as Sabre2 150 or Safire2 149 etc. Then you could go 1 downsize further on the 9-cells with a "soft fit". So you could easily get three diffrent canopies sizes out of one container and never be over stuffed. That was my thinking when putting my kit together.

Wow, that actually really boosted my confidence knowing someone did the exact thing I'm thinking of. Though I have one question. Your profile lists 90 jumps (not sure if that's up-to-date) but since that decision how do you feel about it?

Quote

One of the reasons I said to get a used rig first is the fact you said in your first post that you have been renting a 190 and have had "a few stand up landings". Since we dont know your experience as a jumper or canopy pilot, I would listen to what your fellow jumpers have to say at your DZ. Ive seen several newer jumpers show up in the spring with brand new gear only to land off and slide into a muddy corn field. Then post on here wanting to know how to clean all their new gear I bought my first rig from a guy that did the same thing, bougt a new right, put 100 jumps on it and wanted something smaller. I took the almost $1700 I saved and paid for my first full season of jumping. I used the rig for two seasons, sold it for what I paid for it and bought a new rig which I still own. Just my experience, have fun, be safe

Seeing as I want to have my rig custom fit for my eventual wing-suit, and that I won't be focusing wing-suiting until 2014, I may go this route.
Though fyi, I didn't plan to jump it right away, i was gonna rent the 190 a few more times, demo a 9-cell 170, and then move onto the 7-cell.


Is it obvious I'm quite "torn"? xD

[uberchris 0]

seriously man, i know too many people havent chimed in but:
if money is truly not an issue, then get a new custom rig.

if it is even a slight issue, just buy a used container and put the extra money you saved into more jumps and eventually towards a custom wingsuit.

i dont have that much experience, but everything ive ever owned has been used gear, until a month ago, when i orded a custom container. im ready for a custom container because im downsizing to a 135, and the rig i got will fit a 135, a 120, and eventually a cross braced 100-ish canopy. point being is that my new container is going to go a LONG way in my skydiving career over the next decade, and i waited to order it until i figured out what canopy im gonna be jumping for a long time coming.

anyways, good luck in your quest. BSBD

gravity brings me down.........

[mahonie10 0]

I'm still happy with my choice! I'm a consertive canopy pilot and love my Storm. I'm not in a big rush to down size, plus the Storm is very forgiving with my crappy pack jobs. When it comes down to it, it's your money and your gear, I feel(take with a grain of salt because i'm still a noob) that as long as your not over loading your wing for your skill level, buy the kit you want. Yes if you turn around and sell a year old rig your gonna get screwed a little on the price, but if you take your time on the whole down sizing craze you should be able to get mulitple season out of one container.

[davelepka 4]

You're making the classic mistake that many new guys make.

Look at it this way, you have 'some' success with a 190, but you want to make a major investment in a rig with a 170 main and a 160 reserve, two canopies you are not yet qualified to jump. If the winter has been such that you can't even remember the model of 190 you used, what do you think it has done to your piloting skills?

Buy a used rig. One that will hold a 190 main and 190 reserve. Buy a 190 main and a 190 reserve (both used). New Cypres (good choice).

Jump said rig until you are ready to jump a 170, then used said rig to demo several 170 mains. Buy the one you like best (used). Sell the 190 main to cover the cost of the 170. Bonus - your rig just got easier to pack.

Get to 200 jumps, and buy an entry level wingsuit. Take a first flight course, and get started wingsuiting. Work through 100 or 200 wingsuit jumps, and get yourself to the point where you are ready for a top-line wingsuit.

NOW go apeshit and buy all-new matching gear. This plan might take you 2 or 3 years, and who knows what new suits/containers/canopies will be out then? Nobody right now, but if you follow your plan, you're going to try to buy something now that will work for you several years down the road.

Even leaving out the idea that you want to buy gear sized for canopies that you're not ready to jump, it just doesn't make sense in terms of your only 'reason'. Just buy gear that you can jump today, jump it until your skills are such that you can jump something else, and then buy that. Don't put the cart before the horse.

Buy an inexpensive used rig and use the money on more jumps, canopy control courses, and more jumps.

[airtwardo 7]

Quote

You're making the classic mistake that many new guys make.

Look at it this way, you have 'some' success with a 190, but you want to make a major investment in a rig with a 170 main and a 160 reserve, two canopies you are not yet qualified to jump. If the winter has been such that you can't even remember the model of 190 you used, what do you think it has done to your piloting skills?

Buy a used rig. One that will hold a 190 main and 190 reserve. Buy a 190 main and a 190 reserve (both used). New Cypres (good choice).

Jump said rig until you are ready to jump a 170, then used said rig to demo several 170 mains. Buy the one you like best (used). Sell the 190 main to cover the cost of the 170. Bonus - your rig just got easier to pack.

Get to 200 jumps, and buy an entry level wingsuit. Take a first flight course, and get started wingsuiting. Work through 100 or 200 wingsuit jumps, and get yourself to the point where you are ready for a top-line wingsuit.

NOW go apeshit and buy all-new matching gear. This plan might take you 2 or 3 years, and who knows what new suits/containers/canopies will be out then? Nobody right now, but if you follow your plan, you're going to try to buy something now that will work for you several years down the road.

Even leaving out the idea that you want to buy gear sized for canopies that you're not ready to jump, it just doesn't make sense in terms of your only 'reason'. Just buy gear that you can jump today, jump it until your skills are such that you can jump something else, and then buy that. Don't put the cart before the horse.

Buy an inexpensive used rig and use the money on more jumps, canopy control courses, and more jumps.

Yeah - what Dave said!

AND...to the OP

~ mapping out the next couple years in the sport with 39 jumps really isn't a great idea.

You have no idea what may trip your trigger down the road, you may take interest is several areas of the sport you've not tried yet.

Listen to guys like Dave here, (very active jumpers) they have a better overview of what's really working for newer guys in the sport.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[SEREJumper 1]

Quote

You're making the classic mistake that many new guys make.

+1000!

We're not fucking flying airplanes are we, no we're flying a glorified kite with no power and it should be flown like one! - Stratostar

[popsjumper 2]

Quote

Wow, that actually really boosted my confidence knowing someone did the exact thing I'm thinking of.

A word of caution: It's apparent that you are going to go with what you want to hear instead of what would be better for you right now.

What we recommend is that you buy to match your current skills, not what you think they will be later.

Being a young jumper, you don't know what you don't know. It is much better to get your evaluation and input from the local instructors that know you.

I'm going to tell you to stay with the 190 main until you know how to fly it. "A few stand-ups" doesn't say anything about your canopy skills. Doing that and thinking you have it down well enough to downsize is what gets a LOT of people in trouble.

I'm going to say M4, 190 main, 190* reserve.

*Even though it would fit, PD probably doesn't want to recommend the 190 reserve because it would be a tight fit.

Quote

Though I have one question. Your profile lists 90 jumps (not sure if that's up-to-date) but since that decision how do you feel about it?

90 jumps...not but a little more than you have. You would be much better served by discussing with and learning from experienced people...people like old-timers, instructors and D-holders at your DZ.

Quote

One of the reasons I said to get a used rig first is the fact you said in your first post that you have been renting a 190 and have had "a few stand up landings". Since we dont know your experience as a jumper or canopy pilot, I would listen to what your fellow jumpers have to say at your DZ. Ive seen several newer jumpers show up in the spring with brand new gear only to land off and slide into a muddy corn field.

For a young jumper, this is good stuff. Thanks.

Quote

Is it obvious I'm quite "torn"?

Yes. You'd be less torn if you were thinking a little more conservatively.

Good luck to you, always think safety firs and talk to your instructors.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[fencebuster 7]

Great advice. You should follow it.

Charlie Gittins, 540-327-2208
AFF-I, Sigma TI, IAD-I
MEI, CFI-I, Senior Rigger
Former DZO, Blue Ridge Skydiving Adventures

[aphotic 0]

Quote

I'm still happy with my choice! I'm a consertive canopy pilot and love my Storm. I'm not in a big rush to down size, plus the Storm is very forgiving with my crappy pack jobs. When it comes down to it, it's your money and your gear, I feel(take with a grain of salt because i'm still a noob) that as long as your not over loading your wing for your skill level, buy the kit you want. Yes if you turn around and sell a year old rig your gonna get screwed a little on the price, but if you take your time on the whole down sizing craze you should be able to get mulitple season out of one container.

Thanks for the response, it's good to know that my initial "ideas" weren't too far off from what others have done.

Quote

seriously man, i know too many people havent chimed in but:
if money is truly not an issue, then get a new custom rig.

if it is even a slight issue, just buy a used container and put the extra money you saved into more jumps and eventually towards a custom wingsuit.

i dont have that much experience, but everything ive ever owned has been used gear, until a month ago, when i orded a custom container. im ready for a custom container because im downsizing to a 135, and the rig i got will fit a 135, a 120, and eventually a cross braced 100-ish canopy. point being is that my new container is going to go a LONG way in my skydiving career over the next decade, and i waited to order it until i figured out what canopy im gonna be jumping for a long time coming.

anyways, good luck in your quest. BSBD

As for addressing strictly canopy sq ft, your response makes the most sense and going 135-150-170, like I planned is just too early to buy a new container. Thanks

Quote

~ mapping out the next couple years in the sport with 39 jumps really isn't a great idea.

You have no idea what may trip your trigger down the road, you may take interest is several areas of the sport you've not tried yet.

Listen to guys like Dave here, (very active jumpers) they have a better overview of what's really working for newer guys in the sport.

I understand where you're coming from and as other disciplines have attracted my interest (mostly because I've been obsessed with the sport itself) nothing comes close to the idea of wingsuiting, but who knows? Maybe I won't like it as much as I thought. Thanks

Quote

popsjumper

The only reason I'm not quoting the whole post is due to that you greatly misinterpretted the meaning of my post. I can see how and it's easy to see it now that you pointed it out. When i said it was a boost in confidence, I meant that my very basic, original idea, that I came up with on my own, was not entirely unique and someone else has actually gone a similar if not same route. Not confidence in my plan but with my initial judgement.

Secondly, and this is all my fault. I may have had a few standups witht he 190, but past jump 6 I was using mainly a 200 and seldomly the 190. More recently have a made it to choose the 190 over the 200. I feel comfortable with the 190 only to the fact that its similar to the 200 and I've noticed it's differences. Being in New England I've had to deal with some "dodgy" winds and even so I've landed well. When I said "a few standups" that meant I've only jumped it a few times, and haven't had much trouble at all. I know to listen to my coaches and other jumpers at the DZ. The jumper who would be selling me the 170 is the jumper who filmed my Check Dive. I've gone over this idea with one of my most influential instructors to this whole process and he saw no problem with it. I came here for other opinions, not "first insight". Sorry for coming off that way.

I'm torn because I am conservative about it, it does seem early to be making such an investment with such little experience. If I wasn't, the gear would've already be on order. Maybe torn wasn't the correct phrase. Regardless of that, I truly appreciate the approach you took to that post. It was quite direct and very well worded.
Thanks for the reply.

Quote

You're making the classic mistake that many new guys make.

Look at it this way, you have 'some' success with a 190, but you want to make a major investment in a rig with a 170 main and a 160 reserve, two canopies you are not yet qualified to jump. If the winter has been such that you can't even remember the model of 190 you used, what do you think it has done to your piloting skills?

Buy a used rig. One that will hold a 190 main and 190 reserve. Buy a 190 main and a 190 reserve (both used). New Cypres (good choice).

Jump said rig until you are ready to jump a 170, then used said rig to demo several 170 mains. Buy the one you like best (used). Sell the 190 main to cover the cost of the 170. Bonus - your rig just got easier to pack.

Get to 200 jumps, and buy an entry level wingsuit. Take a first flight course, and get started wingsuiting. Work through 100 or 200 wingsuit jumps, and get yourself to the point where you are ready for a top-line wingsuit.

NOW go apeshit and buy all-new matching gear. This plan might take you 2 or 3 years, and who knows what new suits/containers/canopies will be out then? Nobody right now, but if you follow your plan, you're going to try to buy something now that will work for you several years down the road.

Even leaving out the idea that you want to buy gear sized for canopies that you're not ready to jump, it just doesn't make sense in terms of your only 'reason'. Just buy gear that you can jump today, jump it until your skills are such that you can jump something else, and then buy that. Don't put the cart before the horse.

Buy an inexpensive used rig and use the money on more jumps, canopy control courses, and more jumps.

That response, could not have been better. All-around made sense (grouped with ideas from other posts) and with one tweak is what I feel most strongly in doing now. I'm still going to go with the 170 7-cell main, just not right way, "jumping it into corn fields". I'm not all gung-ho like that. Even if I had the whole rig set-to-go, if I felt I wasn't ready, I will happilly continue to rent the 190/demo a 170 9-cell. That with a used container and larger reserve feels like a good decision.



Thanks to all enough for taking the time to talk this out with me, it really helped with developing a "soft" plan to my jumping. I'm not hard-set on anything I plan to do. I understand there are variables and situations that I have not accounted for; which is mainly why I came to the forums. Further discussion is appreciated.