dz's and s&ta's charging $ to sign prof card?

[skydiveoc 0]

is this common? i was just at a dz where the s&ta charged a skydiver $25 to sign his license prof card and then told him that if he went through the dz it would cost $50.

for one license.

anyone ever heard of this?
josh

[Jimbo 0]

Sounds like a load of crap to me. $25.00 just to sign the thing? That's absurd.

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[ladyskydiver 0]

This isn't done at our DZ. Sounds very strange to me.

Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile.

[quade 4]

There's an abuse of power that should be reported to the USPA.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[slotperfect 7]

I have never heard of an S&TA charging money to sign a proficiency card. Something is going on there. I would call him and tell him you consulted with several longtime skydivers who said that was very unusual. If you can't work it out with him, I agree with calling USPA to let them know what's going on.

Arrive Safely

John

[Pablito 0]

I never heard of That, and I never had to pay for the signatures eider.
In a chat with the S&TA of SA he said that is extrange top.
Cielos Azules
Pablito

"If you don't overcome your fears they will overcome you first"
Shady Monkey/6Segundos Rodriguez/AKA Pablito

[tspillers 0]

As an S&TA I have never charged for signatures or even continued training (ie, water, night, etc). although getting paid for training would not be absurd.

My question would be, is the charge for a signature or for something else such as the check dive, oral quiz, etc. If it is just for the signature (and the fancy stamp we had to buy), then that should be reported to Jim Crouch, Director of Safety and Training.

Todd

I am not totally useless, I can be used as a bad example.

[MrHixxx 0]

Rape!!!

-Hixxx

death,as men call him, ends what they call men
-but beauty is more now than dying’s when

[sunshine 2]

That sounds like someone scamming for cash. Me thinks you should tell the uspa about that.

___________________________________________
meow

I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug!

[jtval 0]

FOR a signature?
damn maybe I'll start charging form mine(seeing as how I'm famous and all!)

some one should be kicked in the balls for doing that to a student! (If it was purely for a sig!)

My photos

My Videos

[freeflir29 0]

BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!!!

[jtval 0]

R U calling bullshit on me ,clay?
I didnt charge the guy!and I was only THINKING of charging for MY sig!

My photos

My Videos

[freeflir29 0]

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I was only THINKING of charging for MY sig!

Not a bad idea.

"Hey...would you sign a couple jumps for me?"

"Sure....that'll be two bucks a pop."

[ECVZZ 0]

I agree with Clay. Sounds like bullshit to me! If the charge was indeed for a signature only, then I would consult the DZO and find out if he condones this practice.

If he doesn't, then see if he can get your money back for you, and have a "talk" (actually, where I come from we call it an "asswhuppin"!) with the offender.

If the DZO condones this type of thing, then find a new place to jump, and call and discuss the whole situation with the USPA.

Greg

[ChileRelleno 0]

You got ripped and you should rip'em right back!!!!

ChileRelleno-Rodriguez Bro#414
Hellfish#511,MuffBro#3532,AnvilBro#9, D24868

[Luminous 0]

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I would call him and tell him you consulted with several longtime skydivers

Yeah! Nevermind your 8000 jumps.

(sorry slotperfect, I couldn't help it. )

Charging to signoff a student's card is ludircrous ! I don't see how some people sleep. I feel kinda guilty when I jump with people and they insist on covering my slot. (Well, besides the actual AFF jumps.)

What DZ was this Josh? (just curious and understand if you'd rather not say.).

BSBD

'In an insane society a sane person seems insane.' Mr. Spock

[AggieDave 6]

The only thing we require is a case of beer to be brought to the DZ before the card gets signed. Even then, thats done in a good hearted nature, if the student objects, then we don't worry about it. Like the rest of the beer rules, its all in good fun to be shared with all, especially with our new A licensed jumpers.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Hooknswoop 19]

Not that I agree with the practice (and I have never charged for signing something off), but reporting them to USPA? What BSR(s) are they violating? Besides, USPA has no regulatory power, a DZ can charge as much as they want for whatever they want. That would be USPA's response, "we don't/can't interfere with a drop zones business practices." Look at Skydive Las Vegas. USPA takes their money even though they discriminate against fun jumpers from other DZ's. I brought up an issue where a DZ was way over-charging new jumpers for gear and the response I got was "It is a business and it isn't a crime to have high prices". Again, even though I don't think it is right, I don't think there is anything USPA can do about it and jumpers aren't going to boycott a DZ over something like this. So your options are, 1)pay them and get the signature, and 2) go somewhere else.

Hook

[quade 4]

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Not that I agree with the practice (and I have never charged for signing something off), but reporting them to USPA?

I believe that charging for signatures definately violates the spirit of the relationship between the student and the very local representation of the USPA -- the S&TA.

I definately think any such abuse of power -should- be reported to the USPA to make them aware of the situation.

I'm not saying that the USPA should revoke the DZs status or anything, but maybe there does need to be a conversation -- at least between the Regional Director and the S&TA in question.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Hooknswoop 19]

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Not that I agree with the practice (and I have never charged for signing something off), but reporting them to USPA?

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I believe that charging for signatures definately violates the spirit of the relationship between the student and the very local representation of the USPA -- the S&TA.

I definately think any such abuse of power -should- be reported to the USPA to make them aware of the situation.

I'm not saying that the USPA should revoke the DZs status or anything, but maybe there does need to be a conversation -- at least between the Regional Director and the S&TA in question.

Does the DZ in NV that doesn't let fun jumpers that didn't learn there jump there violating, in spirit, their Group Membership?

If USPA won't/can't regulate/enforce out-right violations of their BSR's, I don't expect them to address a violation, in spirit, of an S & TA's responsibilites.

Again, I don't agree with the practice, but from what I have seen of USPA's track record of enforcement, I don't see them doing anything.

Hook

[AndyMan 7]

That is a huge breach of trust, and reeks of students being taken advantage of.

As soon as you do get that card signed, I would find another place to jump. After you leave, you might email your S&TA this thread.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[quade 4]

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Does the DZ in NV that doesn't let fun jumpers that didn't learn there jump there violating, in spirit, their Group Membership?

Not really certain about that one. I'm not really certain there's anything implied in any of the rules that a business can't refuse to offer services to anyone it chooses. Ya know, that old sign in the back fo the diner that reads, "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone"? I think that actually does apply in the case you've mentioned. I don't personally agree with the broad sweeping refusals that this particular business chooses, but that seems to be his right. He -says- he does allow people that have trained through him to jump there. Geeze, that's nice of him.

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If USPA won't/can't regulate/enforce out-right violations of their BSR's, I don't expect them to address a violation, in spirit, of an S & TA's responsibilites.

Depends on what violations you're talking aboout. You're being kinda vague. But I -do- have a gut feeling that if this were in -my- local area that there would be at least two USPA reps at the door of the S&TA by now; our Regional Director and the USPA VP as well.

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Again, I don't agree with the practice, but from what I have seen of USPA's track record of enforcement, I don't see them doing anything.

Maybe you're not supposed to see anything. What do you want, a public execution?

No, far better would be a private conversation. Then progressive escalation only if required.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Hooknswoop 19]

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That is a huge breach of trust, and reeks of students being taken advantage of.

I agree, but that is the way the sport is going. Skydiving is becoming more like other sports, money oriented. Again, I don't agree with the practice, but look at the flip side of the coin, the S & TA is providing a service, should they get paid or provide this service for free? Try and get an FAA Designated Evaluator to sign off your Private Pilot's License (or any other rating/endorsement), "For the love of flying"."

Your perception/opinion that it is wrong for an S & TA to charge a fee probably comes from the same place my opinion that it is wrong to charge does, as long as I have been jumping, the S & TA was an experienced Instructor that helped other skydivers, did paperwork, signed off on rating re-newels, etc, for free. What if the S & TA in question makes their entire living from skydiving and feels justified in charging for their time and efforts? What if a DZ charged a $20.00 (fill in the fee) fee for processing a license application? What if a DZ charged a $10.00 fee to re-pack a rig or a $20.00 fee to assemble and pack a new rig on the DZ property?


Hook

[Hooknswoop 19]

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Does the DZ in NV that doesn't let fun jumpers that didn't learn there jump there violating, in spirit, their Group Membership?

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Not really certain about that one. I'm not really certain there's anything implied in any of the rules that a business can't refuse to offer services to anyone it chooses. Ya know, that old sign in the back fo the diner that reads, "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone"? I think that actually does apply in the case you've mentioned. I don't personally agree with the broad sweeping refusals that this particular business chooses, but that seems to be his right. He -says- he does allow people that have trained through him to jump there. Geeze, that's nice of him.

By the same token, is it implied in the S & TA Handbook that the S & TA can't/shouldn't charge for their services?

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If USPA won't/can't regulate/enforce out-right violations of their BSR's, I don't expect them to address a violation, in spirit, of an S & TA's responsibilites.

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Depends on what violations you're talking aboout. You're being kinda vague. But I -do- have a gut feeling that if this were in -my- local area that there would be at least two USPA reps at the door of the S&TA by now; our Regional Director and the USPA VP as well.

Illegal AFF types of violations where USPA chose not to do anything about it.

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Again, I don't agree with the practice, but from what I have seen of USPA's track record of enforcement, I don't see them doing anything.

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Maybe you're not supposed to see anything. What do you want, a public execution?

No, far better would be a private conversation. Then progressive escalation only if required.

Incidents of BSR violations and the action taken by USPA should be public knowledge for two resons. 1) If people realize that USPA will come down on BSR violators, then people will tend to no violate them. If I had never heard of anyone getting a speeding ticket and I knew people that exceeded the speed limit, what is there to stop me from speeding besides my own conscience?

2) It would let people know what DZ's have a history of violating the BSR's.

I agree that a public execution is over-kill for an S &TA charging to sign off a license, and a conversation would be best, but what can you say to the S & TA? "You shouldn't do that"? Response: "Why not?" "Well.......because you shouldn't". The USPA can't revoke their S & TA status if they didn't actaully do anything wrong.

I see this as an indication of whre skydiving is going and how USPa is not at the helm.

Hook

[DUIJames 0]

Thats bulshit but it doesnt surprise me at all, after a student spends so muchmoney on training they are not gonna say no to a 25$ signing fee, if a instructor does that they should be reportd to uspa and lose their rating.


"dont drink and drive you might spill your beer"