pop 0 #1 November 29, 2002 I took a friend of mine out to Spaceland for his very first jump today. They had a lineover and had to cutaway. It scared him up pretty good. I don't think he will ever jump again. But at least he gave it a shot.7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weid14 0 #2 November 29, 2002 what he got two freefalls for the price of one! why complain... he even got a cut away over with, he's all set for a while! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
homer 0 #3 November 29, 2002 Damn what a way to start the sport. At least everything went ok and they made it down safely. CSA #699 Muff #3804 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #4 November 29, 2002 Quote It scared him up pretty good You should have gone on and on about how he was so lucky that they didn't charge him for two jumps!!! A lineover? On a tandem????? That's RARE!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pop 0 #5 November 29, 2002 QuoteA lineover? On a tandem????? That's RARE!!! I wouldn't think that its any more rare than on a regular rig. Lineovers are a packing mistake.7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #6 November 29, 2002 QuoteLineovers are a packing mistake Depending on the type of main it's kinda hard to make that mistake. Plus...you usually don't have plain old "packers" doing tandems at most DZ's. They have a bit more experience so that type of mistake is pretty rare. At least in my experience. In fact.....the only thing close to a tandem mal that I have seen was a two out caused by a Cypres fire. I can't say I have ever seen a real mal at any DZ. I know it happens but not very often. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyD 0 #7 November 29, 2002 QuoteI know it happens but not very often. It does happen and more often than anyone would like. Fortunately, I think TIs are generally well prepared and capable of dealing with adverse situations. Added: Glad to hear everyone is ok. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #8 November 29, 2002 most tandem passengers never seem to know that anything went wrong..i guess with a line over they tried to clear it for a sec? so he had time to see both canopies? i've seen 3 tandem cutaways in the short time i've been jumping, none of them would have had any clue if they hadnt been told after the fact.. [:D]____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scoby 0 #9 November 29, 2002 My AFF JM said that his only cutaway in 3500 jumps was a total on a tandem. He told the passenger after they got to the ground, otherwise he wouldn't have known a thing. Now this guys will have a better story to tell... "There I was, seconds away from death..." I think he should see it as a bonus. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 273 #10 November 29, 2002 QuoteFortunately, I think TIs are generally well prepared and capable of dealing with adverse situations. Have you ever seen the tandem "decision tree"?? Holy shit - how many ways can you die! I did over 100 tandems and to this day I'm glad I was never faced with anything on opening other than a few easily kicked out of line twists. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #11 November 29, 2002 Hehehe... the only way I'll ever do a tandem is on a Sigma rig. The tree is cut in half at least. Its always funny to ask new TI's about the tree on the climb to altitude with the experienced ride alongs. Me: "Drogue in Tow!!!" TI: "Ummmmm... Uhhh... Cutaway.....reserve?" Me (talking to experienced jumper thats going for the ride): "Felling confident that you don't need the chicken handels still? " Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyD 0 #12 November 29, 2002 Quote Have you ever seen the tandem "decision tree"?? Holy shit - how many ways can you die! I did over 100 tandems and to this day I'm glad I was never faced with anything on opening other than a few easily kicked out of line twists. I don't think most jumpers can appreciate how much there is to do on any given tandem jump - not to mention skreaming, kicking, puking, grabbing passengers strapped to you. My all time favorite is in the Vector Sigma manual - on what to do if a passenger grabs your left hand! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 273 #13 November 29, 2002 Quote My all time favorite is in the Vector Sigma manual - on what to do if a passenger grabs your left hand! Bite 'em hard on the neck!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyD 0 #14 November 29, 2002 Quote Bite 'em hard on the neck!! Quote from the Tandem Vector Owner's Manual: "If he has your left arm, hit him on the right side of his head as hard as you can; he'll probably let go. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sar911 0 #15 November 29, 2002 Quote Bite 'em hard on the neck!! _________________________________________________ Is there an extra charge for that?________________________________________________ Why does the Bytch wear leather.........because she can !!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ECVZZ 0 #16 November 29, 2002 Quote Bite 'em hard on the neck!! Damn, is that all it takes? What happens if I grab both your hands?Greg Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christoofar 0 #17 November 29, 2002 Quote Quote Bite 'em hard on the neck!! Damn, is that all it takes? What happens if I grab both your hands?Greg Headbutt from behind. I've seen two tandem cutaways. Both times the student got to the ground the had the opposite reaction (they were psyched!). I can see how that would scare the piss out of a student (maybe God is telling me I shouldn't do this shit?!?!?!). LOL! ____________________________________________________________ I'm RICK JAMES! Fo shizzle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgoper 0 #18 November 29, 2002 Quote I wouldn't think that its any more rare than on a regular rig. Lineovers are a packing mistake. i agree with POP on this one. i've seen 2 cutaways from tandems in one day. on skydive spacelands website there is a jpeg of a lineover on one of their tandem canopies, it was cleared though. hey POP, tell your friend their safe now, i had to "sweat bullets" until jump # 475 to have my first cut-away. every jump wondering, this little voice saying "is this jump the jump?" used to drive me nuts! --Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gemini 0 #19 November 29, 2002 Pop, which one of the instructors got the extra ride? Kat is new so I hope it wasn't her first! Blue skies, Jim Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cpoxon 0 #20 November 30, 2002 Can't post attachments at the moment so it's on my site Tandem Malfunction Flowchart I got it from Bill Booths Sigma Safety Features Power Point, which he presented at the PIA and the BPA AGM last year (and probably other places too!). It is 28 MB so I hope Bill won't mind me grabbing the chart. In another slide, Bill attributes drogue problems to the number of handles: QuoteA FACTORIAL (x !) is a mathematical way of expressing all possible combinations of a certain number of items. A Solo rig has 3 handles. 3! (Three Factorial) = 3x2x1= 6 A Tandem rig has 6. 6! (Six Factorial) = 6x5x4x3x2x1= 720 720 divided by 6 equals 120. 6 handles vs. 3 means 120 times more combinations. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyD 0 #21 November 30, 2002 Notice that all begins with a stable exit. There's an entirely different matrix that comes before that one for those of us who can't seem to exit the f@&*ing aircraft in the proper fashion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 273 #22 November 30, 2002 Quote those of us who can't seem to exit the f@&*ing aircraft in the proper fashion. I used to do what I call a "static line" arch on exit - arms straight out and slightly above shoulder height, legs way spread, hard arch in the center. I'd hold this until I threw the drogue, then relaxed the body position and got on with handle checks. I could generally catch plenty of air and control the exit regardless of what the student did - I have a picture of me doing that and the student with one arm above his head, the other straight out to his side, one leg kicking back and the other dropping at the knee.... no problem. The other key is an aggressive exit that gets both of you out the door and into the relative wind quickly. On some aircraft (small door Cessna 411 comes to mind) it was easier for me to roll it out the door (one front loop, stable, throw drogue). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skycat 0 #23 November 30, 2002 QuoteOn a tandem????? That's RARE!!! Those are icarus tandem canopies which don't have break line settings, it seems to be pretty common on them, but usually the TI is able to clear them. I know Derek said he used to get them all the time, but the only thing he has every chopped on a tandem was line twists.Fly it like you stole it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyD 0 #24 November 30, 2002 Quote I used to do what I call a "static line" arch on exit - arms straight out and slightly above shoulder height, legs way spread, hard arch in the center. I'd hold this until I threw the drogue, then relaxed the body position and got on with handle checks. I could generally catch plenty of air and control the exit regardless of what the student did - I have a picture of me doing that and the student with one arm above his head, the other straight out to his side, one leg kicking back and the other dropping at the knee.... no problem. The other key is an aggressive exit that gets both of you out the door and into the relative wind quickly. On some aircraft (small door Cessna 411 comes to mind) it was easier for me to roll it out the door (one front loop, stable, throw drogue). Yeah, but that doesn't sound like fun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pop 0 #25 November 30, 2002 QuotePop, which one of the instructors got the extra ride? Kat is new so I hope it wasn't her first! it was joe7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
