skydiverek 63 #51 February 2, 2013 Airtec manufacturer 8000 Cypreses PER YEAR, so we are talking about over 20,000 AADs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DivingWombat 0 #52 February 2, 2013 After a long conversation with a DZO, telling me he had issues with every of his 10 vigil 2, I decided to change my order and went for a cypres 2. It seems that every AAD manufaturer has its problems. I am mostly concerned about a possible misfire. I hate the idea to pop a recently packed reserve, send the unit back, wait and pay the additional packjob. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
williammonk 0 #53 February 3, 2013 Quote Oh no, now people will have to check thier gear before every jump... Like your meant to I have never had a problem checking my gear before each jump, but what really worries me here is the unit failing as you board and move about inside the plane. Some others mentioned that static should only be a concern on the packing mat, but how many other people have been static shocked by their car at the gas station? It happens. In the case of aircraft, it's enough of an issue that any aircraft being fueled must be grounded prior to fueling operations. Another big concern of mine is a reserve firing inside the aircraft. I'm sure some will argue that there are safeguards in place, but malfunctioning hardware / software is not always predictable in nature. Just ask the satellite guys.AirTec has got to recall these units. It has got to be a nightmare for management, but at this point (as far as I'm concerned) they've got a potentially dangerous product out there. but that might just be me... William. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RIGGER 0 #54 February 3, 2013 Well said but the tset should cover up & find a "Dead" Cypres 2 in the fre-flight checks. The issue is that the fix will take time = many rigs will be grounded including Tandems, Students, Sports & Military. My concren is if a skydiver / TI / AFF I will forget to run the test before a specific jump or in between jumps form any reason like "back to back" or whatever & the Cypres 2 in that specific jump will be "No Active" - in case of an issue who will "cover up" ? liability issues ? All factors should be considered by the users, "Public Safety" (Tandems, AFF students, Rental rigs) The most important - if you move on with SB create a "Check Up" control sysetm for Tandems, AFF & Rental rigs. Skydivers must be informed & move to "do it yourself" - maybe some big notes at the DZ's & in the packing & boarding area. Think about it. Cheers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nigel99 559 #55 February 3, 2013 I just want to point out to the people saying check your gear, people should have been checking their display already. BUT this service bulletin requires an extra step - you now need to PRESS the button before EVERY jump. this service bulletin affects roughly half of the units at our dz according to the local rigger. I wonder how long people will continue to press the button before complacency kicks in? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RIGGER 0 #56 February 3, 2013 Quote Well said but the tset should cover up & find a "Dead" Cypres 2 in the pre-flight checks. The issue is that the fix will take time = many rigs will be grounded including Tandems, Students, Sports & Military. My concren is if a skydiver / TI / AFF I will forget to run the test before a specific jump or in between jumps from any reason like "back to back" or whatever & the Cypres 2 in that specific jump will be "No Active" - in case of an issue who will "cover up" ? liability issues ? All factors should be considered by the users, "Public Safety" (Tandems, AFF students, Rental rigs) The most important - if you move on with SB create a "Check Up" control sysetm for Tandems, AFF & Rental rigs. Skydivers must be informed & move to "do it yourself" - maybe some big notes at the DZ's & in the packing & boarding area. Think about it. Cheers I correct some typo. Cheers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #57 February 4, 2013 Quotewhat really worries me here is the unit failing as you board and move about inside the plane. Some rigs are designed to allow easy access to the control unit under the reserve flap. If you wanted, you could arrange a check to be done before jump run. It would of course be more difficult for rigs with the control unit on the back pad, although loosening the chest strap might be practical to allow access.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverek 63 #58 February 4, 2013 From Airtec Cypres website: "Our Goal: 100% Reliability and 100% Safety Guaranteed for 12.5 Years. Benefit from our comprehensive experience and the competence of the unprecedented leader of modern electronic opening devices, the CYPRES. Only the original CYPRES quality guarantees the safety you are looking for - for 12.5 years. This also includes our unique and free worldwide repair services (with the exception of shipping), as long as there are no signs of intentional damage, and maintenance has been completed properly within the recommended intervals. CYPRES - maximum Reliability that you can trust." Source: http://cypres.cc/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=82%3Agarantie&catid=20%3Agarantie&Itemid=103&lang=en Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverek 63 #59 February 4, 2013 New SB FAQs: http://www.cypres-usa.com/SB-FAQ/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bartr 0 #60 February 4, 2013 I'm a bit confused... the german update says something a little bit different... Or not? ...use google translate for the first paragraph: There have been recent incidents that some Cypres 2 devices off devices not after 14 hours. In this case, they show zero, but do not work and do not respond well to a button click. Moreover, there was a case of activation of a packing sheet, which is not allocated to this phenomenon. Intensive investigations indicate that this (cause much static) with low humidity and the packing to do on non-conductive surfaces has. Container as well as caps are made of nylon and create friction during movement and may enormously high voltages. A floor covering of synthetic fiber favors the additional very strong. The number of incidents that can lead to this behavior, however, is very, very low. http://www.myskydive.de/media/kunena/attachments/178/PCA_31012013_deu.pdf Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnjds 0 #61 February 4, 2013 If cypress is such a good company, they would recall every unit efected by this SB. after all, they helped put argus out of buzz. Note, back up your produce. john Quotede. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #62 February 4, 2013 QuoteSeriously? It's inconvenient to check your gear before you put it on? 12-14 team jumps in a day.... Yes, having to change my routine that I have had for 6k jumps to make up for a device that was supposed to be "set and forgotten" IS a big deal. QuoteAt least this time the static turns it off instead of making it fire like the Cypres 1 did Then there is also nothing to prevent it from turning off AFTER I did the prejump check..... Static buildup does not just happen on packing mats. And it seems you didn't read the SB: "In addition, a recent activation, after the rig had been placed on the packing mat, has been linked to this phenomenon.""No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Suha 8 #63 February 4, 2013 QuoteI'm a bit confused... the german update says something a little bit different... Or not? ...use google translate for the first paragraph: [...] Moreover, there was a case of activation of a packing sheet, which is not allocated to this phenomenon. [...] This part has been translated wrong. In german it clearly states, that the activation is allocated to this "phenomenon"... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
captain1976 0 #64 February 4, 2013 QuoteI'm a bit confused... the german update says something a little bit different... Or not? ...use google translate for the first paragraph: There have been recent incidents that some Cypres 2 devices off devices not after 14 hours. In this case, they show zero, but do not work and do not respond well to a button click. Moreover, there was a case of activation of a packing sheet, which is not allocated to this phenomenon. Intensive investigations indicate that this (cause much static) with low humidity and the packing to do on non-conductive surfaces has. Container as well as caps are made of nylon and create friction during movement and may enormously high voltages. A floor covering of synthetic fiber favors the additional very strong. The number of incidents that can lead to this behavior, however, is very, very low. http://www.myskydive.de/media/kunena/attachments/178/PCA_31012013_deu.pdf These service bulletins like aircraft SB's need to be translated by people fluent in both languages before they are released; that means the grammar too. Otherwise you get a bunch of twisted shit like in the report you shared with us.You live more in the few minutes of skydiving than many people live in their lifetime Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nigel99 559 #65 February 5, 2013 QuoteQuoteSeriously? It's inconvenient to check your gear before you put it on? 12-14 team jumps in a day.... Yes, having to change my routine that I have had for 6k jumps to make up for a device that was supposed to be "set and forgotten" IS a big deal. QuoteAt least this time the static turns it off instead of making it fire like the Cypres 1 did Then there is also nothing to prevent it from turning off AFTER I did the prejump check..... Static buildup does not just happen on packing mats. And it seems you didn't read the SB: "In addition, a recent activation, after the rig had been placed on the packing mat, has been linked to this phenomenon." I think it is pretty enlightening how many people simply do not understand the gravity of the situation. You've got a good point, after 6000 jumps, you have to learn a new procedure.Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #66 February 5, 2013 QuoteThese service bulletins like aircraft SB's need to be translated by people fluent in both languages before they are released; that means the grammar too. Otherwise you get a bunch of twisted shit like in the report you shared with us.or they could publish it in german onlyscissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hcsvader 1 #67 February 5, 2013 QuoteQuoteQuoteSeriously? It's inconvenient to check your gear before you put it on? 12-14 team jumps in a day.... Yes, having to change my routine that I have had for 6k jumps to make up for a device that was supposed to be "set and forgotten" IS a big deal. QuoteAt least this time the static turns it off instead of making it fire like the Cypres 1 did Then there is also nothing to prevent it from turning off AFTER I did the prejump check..... Static buildup does not just happen on packing mats. And it seems you didn't read the SB: "In addition, a recent activation, after the rig had been placed on the packing mat, has been linked to this phenomenon." I think it is pretty enlightening how many people simply do not understand the gravity of the situation. You've got a good point, after 6000 jumps, you have to learn a new procedure. Here's a fun bit of information for those of you that are worried about your unit becoming inoperable and you not being aware of it. Did you know that once you turn on your cypres unit and it goes thru it's checks, you can disconnect the cutter and no error message or any indication that the unit will not work will appear. So if the cables connected to cutter were to be broken during a rough landing, or damaged during installation (both have happened) you would have no way of knowing that your cutter is not going to function until you turn the unit on again and it runs thru the self checks. The "set it and forget it" attitude towards AADs is BS and has been for quite some time. Batteries die, equipment gets damaged, operator error and alien interference can effect how our gear works. You can check your AAD on the ground before each jump, and in most rigs even in the plane before exit. Sure a lot of people are pissed off about this issue with the cypres unit but hopefully a positive outcome of this will be that people learn to do a full gear check before each jump, and better understand how their gear works.Have you seen my pants? it"s a rough life, Livin' the dream >:) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nelyubin 0 #68 February 5, 2013 Yes. You name known to many facts. But I think that they are contrary to the marketing policy and manuals airtek. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hcsvader 1 #69 February 5, 2013 From the cypres website QuoteBenefit from our comprehensive experience and the competence of the unprecedented leader of modern electronic opening devices, the CYPRES. Only the original CYPRES quality guarantees the safety you are looking for - for 12.5 years. This also includes our unique and free worldwide repair services (with the exception of shipping), as long as there are no signs of intentional damage, and maintenance has been completed properly within the recommended intervals. CYPRES - maximum Reliability that you can trust. Yup they guarantee their product, and they even say in the SB that if you have an effected unit that you will get a replacement. So as long as you do the check and your unit still works... Your unit still works.Have you seen my pants? it"s a rough life, Livin' the dream >:) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nelyubin 0 #70 February 5, 2013 :) CYPRES 2 User's Guide English 1-2012 QuoteCYPRES, which is the acronym of „CYbernetic Parachute RElease System“, is an automatic activation device which meets all needs, requirements, and desires of today‘s skydivers. Once it is installed, you can‘t hear it, you can‘t feel it and you can‘t see it. The operation is easy: If you jump from your DZ into your DZ just switch it on prior to the first jump of the day and then forget about it.* It is not necessary to switch it off, because CYPRES will do this itself. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hcsvader 1 #71 February 5, 2013 And that's since been updated via the SB Have you seen my pants? it"s a rough life, Livin' the dream >:) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
neandertal 0 #72 February 5, 2013 I always recommended Cypres to my friends because of my satisfaction with their quality and customer service. So, yesterday I called SSK and to my dismay, they told me that Airtec will not take my units until they are due to 4 years maintenance. I offered to pay for the repair. Same answer. From now on my answer to friends will be like: Whatever bro, buy the cheap one and spend the change in beer. No Drogue, no JUMP!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IanHarrop 42 #73 February 5, 2013 QuoteI always recommended Cypres to my friends because of my satisfaction with their quality and customer service. So, yesterday I called SSK and to my dismay, they told me that Airtec will not take my units until they are due to 4 years maintenance. I offered to pay for the repair. Same answer. From now on my answer to friends will be like: Whatever bro, buy the cheap one and spend the change in beer. +1 they seem to indicate that there may a another option sometime in the future, but I am not holding breath... not when there is something on the order of 32,000 units to inspect. "4) My CYPRES is in the affected date range but is still responding, can I send it in for the update now? No, at this time please do not send in a CYPRES that does NOT fail the pre-boarding test unless it is time for the 4-year maintenance. We are looking into other possibilities to deal with the affected units and ask that you to be patient with us while we work out the best solution to minimize turn-around time. As you can imagine, it would be impossible to deal with all units at once as there is only a certain amount of capacity available both at SSK in the US and Airtec in Germany ." http://www.cypres-usa.com/SB-FAQ/"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #74 February 5, 2013 QuoteI think it is pretty enlightening how many people simply do not understand the gravity of the situation. You've got a good point, after 6000 jumps, you have to learn a new procedure. I think the bigger issue is they know there is a problem and that issue has led to a firing on the ground.... But they *claim* it will not happen in the plane or on exit or in freefall.... But they USED to claim it would not fire on the ground either. Frankly, their solution is crap."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lineset 0 #75 February 5, 2013 Do tell us your solution then. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
