USPA Elections

[Jimbo 0]

There's a new poll on the front page asking if people are going to vote in the upcoming USPA elections. The poll has only been there a short time and already there a few people who have said that they are not voting.

I ask those of you who have decided not to vote, why?

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[narcimund 0]

Sure. That's easy. I'm not voting because I'm not qualified to participate. I don't know the people and there's no way I can gather enough information to make an informed choice without going to more effort than it's worth to me. Any choice I made would be effectively guesswork.

Those who aren't committed enough to live deeply in the issues and research candidates shouldn't participate. That's me. I'm just a skydiver.

In exchange for my sloth, I vow not to self-righteously bitch if the vote results in disaster. I do however reserve the right to get involved later. Who knows?

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[Jimbo 0]

If you're interested in learning at least a little bit about where everyone stands then check this link:

Monday's with the BOD

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[PhreeZone 20]

Better link sorted by date

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[RevJim 0]

Quote

There's a new poll on the front page asking if people are going to vote in the upcoming USPA elections. The poll has only been there a short time and already there a few people who have said that they are not voting.

I ask those of you who have decided not to vote, why?

-
Jim

I don't think you are going to get many answers to this Jim. Complacency breeds contempt (or something like that).

I am to the point that I really wish there was another association to choose from in the US. I jump primarily at non GM DZs, and have only had my membership checked once (at the Harvest Moon Boogie) since '98.

The only reason I remain a member is to eventually qualify for my pro rating. That's all I want.

It's your life, live it!
Karma
RB#684 "Corcho", ASK#60, Muff#3520, NCB#398, NHDZ#4, C-33989, DG#1

[happythoughts 0]

Quote

If you're interested in learning at least a little bit about where everyone stands then check this link:

Actually, that is not true. At one point, there were some valid questions and attempts at valid answers. Then it became a bunch of questions where the question implies some poor action or complicity in the action. The "have you stopped beating your wife?" question. You are screwed no matter how you answer. Or "what are you going to do to stop the evil... conspiracy?". If there is no secret evil conspiracy, how do you answer that.

If you did politely answer, you merely positioned yourself to be a lightning rod for personal attacks and I mean VERY personal and insulting. Most BOD members quit answering long ago. It got really tiring to put up with a lot of insulting abuse without any point. I have emailed a few. I totally agree with them. I wouldn't do it either.

If you want the qualifications, the wreck dot is not the place to get answers. That is why most people don't bother with it anymore. Email any questions to the candidate yourself.

[RevJim 0]

Wow, are you way off base there Bill.

The "Mondays with the BoD" thread seems to be working quite well.

Those that do answer get the respect they deserve, and yes, some flak from time to time.

Those that do not answer, or only answer from time to time are the ones that worry me.

They will not answer questions from us? Why? Because they might get flamed?

Well, I've got some news for ya. If they were making intelligent decisions, on the behalf of the jumpers, there would be no flak. There would be far fewer flames. There might be some constructive criticism, but that's about it.

You see, when we have leaders that are clearly voting with their wallets, and not our interests, it makes sence for them to hide. they know they are in the wrong.

Didn't you notice the recent influx of current BoD members answering the "safe" questions?

Could it possibly be an election year?

Kudos to Mike Mullins, as he's always been there with his answers. Oh, yea, that's right, he's on OUR side. He answers all the time. Where are his flames and personal attacks? No, really, where are they? Simple, there are none, for the same reason there would be for other Bod members.

It's called accountability.

It's your life, live it!
Karma
RB#684 "Corcho", ASK#60, Muff#3520, NCB#398, NHDZ#4, C-33989, DG#1

[flyhi 24]

Quote

I'm not voting because I'm not qualified to participate. I don't know the people and there's no way I can gather enough information to make an informed choice without going to more effort than it's worth to me. Any choice I made would be effectively guesswork.

Why does guesswork always get such a bad rap?

I went scientific this year, I voted for all the women running for the BOD, Max Cohn to show my diversity (I don't freefly much), and the guys who had the most jumps in the last year. Oh yeah, and for Richard Schachner, because he gave me a pull-up cord. I feel like such a vote-slut. And yet, I can live with that.

Shit happens. And it usually happens because of physics.

[Jimbo 0]

And yet another link.

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[happythoughts 0]

"They will not answer questions from us? Why? Because they might get flamed? "

I did not say flamed, I said insulted. Do you know why Dave took over the "Mondays" post? It is because the person who was previously doing it was so pointlessly insulting and unprofessional that there was no point to responding. The questions and posts following were just unintelligent diatribes. There was no actual interest in asking the BOD questions or gaining information, just being abusive.

In a recent post, that person used the phrase "bunch of Punk Ass Chumps". That is the tone that I am referring to. I certainly wouldn't respond to anyone addressing me in such a manner, I doubt you would, I don't wonder that the BOD chose not to do so also.

When Dave took over, he posed his questions in an adult manner and the replies from the BOD started again.

The questions were well thought out and supposed to be informative. However, as I said, anyone who answered became a lightning rod for insulting comments. I have had email conversations with members of the BOD that confirm that they got tired of being treated like that.

I understand what flaming someone is. I understand what challenging someones post response in a thinking manner is. However, calling someone names and threatening them with physical harm is neither and non-productive.

[Skycoog 0]

I understand completely the feeling of not living deeply in the issues or knowing enough about the candidates to make an informed decision. It certainly is your decision of whether to vote or not. You are no lesser of a person which ever way you go.

Still, I would encourage you to do a little research and vote, especially when it comes to your regional directors, who represent you on the BOD and should be accessible.

Like you, I'm just a skydiver, and as it stands, I don't see any big issues currently that will "destroy" the sport as we know it. Still, when it comes to sudden changes or events, especially airport access, airspace issues, things that could potentially threaten your right to hurl yourself towards the Earth, you might want to have a say in who you have at the USPA level dealing with those issues or lobbying in your behalf on the local or national level.

You don't have to vote for 8 National directors, you can vote for the ones you know something about. Regional director information should (hopefully) be no more than an email away.

Monday with the BOD is a good forum. I think the most important thing it does is lets the lurkers who don't want to jerk around with the typical rec.skydiving banter read honest answers to good questions (most of them are good) to get a feel for the issues.

As a regular skydiver, that might not be any issues that are threatening you now, but that doesn't hold for our future, so it's best if we try and get the best and brightest to the forefront.

[keskeie 0]

No offense, but your email is a downer for me. You could do a little asking around to find out some info on people, couldn't you?

I know that I am more fortunate to jump at a big DZ for this reason - I know 3 of the candidates from my DZ (Perris), and have jumped with 2 of them. Yes, I'm only a little newbie with 100 and some jumps, but Scott Smith and John DeSantis are good like that. They skydive for the love of the sport, not for the love of their egos. The third candidate I know of, Jan Meyer, has no idea who I am. I am not voting for John and Scott because they have jumped with me, but I shouldn't have to tell you that the above mentioned does say something about each.

If anyone has any questions about these three, please send me an email and I'll be happy to give you all the info I have....

We were never feeling bored because we were never being boring.
-Zelda Fitzgerald

[PhreeZone 20]

Just since someone is a good LO does'nt mean they will be a good BOD member. There was a very well known freefly LO on the ballet the last time, but does that mean that person will be the best to represent me on the things I want represented on?

The true fun jumper is'nt the LO, or a DZO, or even someone that works full time for a DZ, its the person that make the effort to get out to the boogies, meet as many people as possible, and have the best time that they can have. Windsor is the perfect example of this, at WFFC he was very chill and loved jumping with a lot of differnt people (and was'nt charging to jump with him)

To bad BillVon is'nt running since I'd vote for him in a second.. Hint hint for 2005

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[Jessica 0]

Quote

Windsor is the perfect example of this, at WFFC he was very chill and loved jumping with a lot of differnt people (and was'nt charging to jump with him)

Windsor is the coolest of the cool. When I had a hard opening that yanked my helmet off and jerked the bejeezus out of me at WFFC, he stopped everything he was doing and spent 45 minutes showing me how to pack that borrowed Sabre so it wouldn't spank me. He also pontificated extensively to me on many different issues of student training, gear selection, exit separation, etc. He incurred the wrath of a group of freefliers in an effort to get sufficient separation for an inexperienced group from Tent 4. Windsor is awesome.

In fact, pretty much all the organizers in Tent 4 at WFFC (low-pressure dives) struck me as quality human beings with the best interests of skydiving and skydivers at heart.

Skydiving is for cool people only

[keskeie 0]

Hey, I'd vote for BillVon, too....if he'd just get his but in gear!

I agree that being a good LO doesn't mean that a person will be a good BOD member. When I jumped with these two, they weren't LO'ing, they were just a part of the dive. I also know them from more than just a jump, and I know what all the jumpers that I respect at the DZ think of them. I'm a fairly observant and objective/critical person, but I wasn't going to get into all of that on here.

Quote

The true fun jumper is'nt the LO, or a DZO, or even someone that works full time for a DZ, its the person that make the effort to get out to the boogies, meet as many people as possible, and have the best time that they can have.

Exactly.

Quote

was very chill and loved jumping with a lot of differnt people (and was'nt charging to jump with him)

Exactly, these people weren't charging to jump with them, they were just out having fun and teaching others for fun....not for jumps or money, and they weren't being snobby about how many jumps everybody had....

We were never feeling bored because we were never being boring.
-Zelda Fitzgerald

[narcimund 0]

Quote

No offense, but your email is a downer for me. You could do a little asking around to find out some info on people, couldn't you?

No I can't, or rather I won't. The decision will not be a better one because I got a little bit of information and participated in something I'm not qualified for. If 100 weakly educated votes dilute 10 wise votes, then 101 weak votes will dilute them even more.

I sincerely don't understand the great pressure people give to vote in elections. Why are you so vested in having people with little motivation, little information, and lousy reasons piss in your carefully considered and deeply felt contributions? Why do you feel ANYTHING would be better by encouraging the least capable and the least interested to make decisions for you?

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[Craig 0]

Quote

......Still, when it comes to sudden changes or events, especially airport access, airspace issues, things that could potentially threaten your right to hurl yourself towards the Earth, you might want to have a say in who you have at the USPA level dealing with those issues or lobbying in your behalf on the local or national level.....

This is one of the reasons I am going to vote this year. I have come to realize how easy it would be to have unwanted regulations, or worse brought on by the government or other such political BS that could cause lots of change in our sport that may not be in our best intrest. On the other hand maybe I was just tired of spending 40 some dollars a year in dues for just a magazine, and not what is in the best interest of our skydiving community? And really it has not taken much time to figure out who, in my opinion, would be best suited for the positions from the info in Parachutist and the links listed in this thread. I got out of bed this morning knowing pratically nothing about the candidates running, to filling out my ballot with who I though would do a good job representing the sport and listening to what we have to say.

[Jimbo 0]

Quote

The true fun jumper is'nt the LO, or a DZO, or even someone that works full time for a DZ, its the person that make the effort to get out to the boogies, meet as many people as possible, and have the best time that they can have.

The true fun jumper doesn't necessarily make the best candidate for the BOD. It's nice when our BOD members do get out to boogies, and do meet as many people as they can, but more important than that is their ability to recognize and understand the rather unique set of issues that we as skydivers are presented with every day. Also important is their ability to be effective in the role of BOD member. Not all, hell, probably not even most of the fun jumpers in the USPA meet the criteria mentioned above.
I'm not suggesting that you can't be a fun jumper and be effective on the BOD. What I am suggesting is that being a fun jumper doesn't necessarily qualify you for a position on the BOD. Just something to think about when you're casting your vote.

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[Cloudseeder 0]

[billvon 2,993]

>Windsor is the coolest of the cool.

>He also pontificated extensively to me . . .

Which is what he does best!

Seriously, he's a long winded son of a bitch, but a very sharp guy with a good view of the sport from the perspective of a fun jumper, rigger and pilot.

[Cloudseeder 0]

Do you know why Dave took over the "Mondays" post? It is because the person who was previously doing it was so pointlessly insulting and unprofessional that there was no point to responding. The questions and posts following were just unintelligent diatribes. There was no actual interest in asking the BOD questions or gaining information, just being abusive.
__________________________________________________
Mr Bickner, do you know for a fact that this is why Mr. Todak was asked to act as moderator of that forum?
__________________________________________________ In a recent post, that person used the phrase "bunch of Punk Ass Chumps".
__________________________________________________
My Word! Who is this person , this B b b barbaric brute?
__________________________________________________

That is the tone that I am referring to. I certainly wouldn't respond to anyone addressing me in such a manner, I doubt you would, I don't wonder that the BOD chose not to do so also.
__________________________________________________
Brass Tacks now Mr Bickner,
Many of the BOD quit responding because
I wouldn't allow them to waste my time or the readers time with the spin and lies or the word salads or the circle talk.
I'm a pretty perceptive person and I know when someone is trying to BS around. I wasn't going to have that in what was to be an informative weekly thread. When the spin got started I'd call them on it.Simple as that.
Again, I challenge you to provide one quote from a Mondays with the BOD thread which is out of line.

Mondays with the BOD was a second chance for many of the BOD to regain my respect.
With that said let me tell you that after that second chance , and after attending the last three board meetings , I still find many of the current BOD to be in the position of Director more for their own self interests than for the good of the Fun Jumpers. These types I have no respect for but only disdain.
Do some of my posts on Rec. reflect that? No.., they illuminate that fact straight out .

"Treetop"

[billvon 2,993]

>Mondays with the BOD was a second chance for many of the BOD to
> regain my respect.

Hmm. You've called the BOD a "dung heap of politics" and called them a "crap of a BOD." Why would you expect their respect, or even want it?

[Cloudseeder 0]

Quote

>Mondays with the BOD was a second chance for many of the BOD to
> regain my respect.

Hmm. You've called the BOD a "dung heap of politics" and called them a "crap of a BOD." Why would you expect their respect, or even want it?

_________________________________________________

What gave you the idea that I was seeking any respect from those who I don't respect?
Now some of the BOD are "good people" but many are not!
For the most part they are looking out for their own self-interests and should not be trusted to look out for the Fun Jumpers Interests.

"Treetop"

[Deuce 1]

Quote

>Windsor is the coolest of the cool.

>He also pontificated extensively to me . . .

Which is what he does best!

Seriously, he's a long winded son of a bitch, but a very sharp guy with a good view of the sport from the perspective of a fun jumper, rigger and pilot.

LOL!

Bill, I appreciate your expert opinion

[happythoughts 0]

Quote

Quote

>Windsor is the coolest of the cool.

>He also pontificated extensively to me . . .

Which is what he does best!

Seriously, he's a long winded son of a bitch, but a very sharp guy with a good view of the sport from the perspective of a fun jumper, rigger and pilot.

LOL!

Bill, I appreciate your expert opinion

"expert opinion" LOL. Bill ya gotta laugh with me here, bud.