Cheapest AAD that doesn't make you LESS safe?

[rss_v 0]

Imagine if someone was happy jumping without an AAD and, given the choice, wouldn't purchase one. Try not to worry about why they might make that decision, just "accept" it for the purposes of this thread.

They decide to get an AAD, though, because the majority of DZ's require one - either officially or unofficially. What would be the cheapest way to tick the "has an AAD" box that doesn't actually make him less safe? I know some people refuse to use certain models of AAD because they supposedly give false positives, for example. Of course, for this person false negatives wouldn't be a concern because the alternative is no AAD at all.

Any suggestions? Not including things that require lying/deception such as a fake/empty AAD, haha.

Thanks,

[wmw999 2,527]

Cypres 1 was made until early 2003 I think, so the last few of them would still have 2 years. They had extremely low failure rates, because they were probably some of the simplest.

Of course, finding one that's still got some time might be hard.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[ChrisD 0]

Quite frankly I don't understand your question?

But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

[Shredex 0]

So, they require AAD's? Do they require the AAD to be turned ON? ;p

Find the cheapest one, never turn it on, and BAM! No misfires.

[spage 0]

Depending on your container, an Argus might fit your description.

The issues with the Argus AAD involved containers where the cutter was mounted on a reserve flap (Icon, Vector, etc) - and in at least one case ended up locking the reserve shut.

This can't happen when the cutter is mounted at the bottom of the reserve container (Wings, Javelin, etc). In the rare instance where it doesn't completely cut the loop, the reserve will still work manually - it will act like there is no AAD installed.

Current going rate is ~$400 for a new-ish Argus. I am relatively new to the sport, however, so please do your own research (and check where your cutter mounts) before deciding.

[mark 107]

Statistically speaking, you're better off with any AAD (Cypres/Vigil/Argus/MarS) than with no AAD at all. That's regardless of rig and regardless of cutter position.

Mark

[sundevil777 102]

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Cypres 1 was made until early 2003 I think, so the last few of them would still have 2 years. They had extremely low failure rates, because they were probably some of the simplest.

Of course, finding one that's still got some time might be hard.

Wendy P.

How is the cypres I simpler than the II, or simpler than other brands?

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[riggerrob 643]

Most container manufacturers have banned Argus and it is no longer sold.

[riggerrob 643]

The first part of your question makes a lot of sense.
Try finding a Cypres 1 that has a year or two of life left in it.
Hint: the last Cypres 1 will retire in 2015.

The second part of your question is illogical. ANY AAD is more likely to save your life.
The arguments against AADs are mostly written by people who are too cheap to buy AADs, or are too arrogant ...

[danornan 79]

The difference between the cheapest and the most expensive, amortized over it's life time is equal to maybe 4-5 jump tickets a year. What's your life worth?

Dano

[masterrigger1 2]

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Most container manufacturers have banned Argus and it is no longer sold.

Most, if not all, container manufacturers have never written AADs into their ACO's manual in the first place.

They only did a somewhat verbal authorization...

So part of that statement probably is very moot.


MEL

Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC
www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

[airtwardo 7]

FXC!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[faulknerwn 38]

I thought only vector and javelin banned it ( maybe mirage?) and everyone else is ok with it? I'm mostly confident that wings, racer, infinity, dolphin, vortex and others still allow it. I thought it was only the 3 manufacturers that ban it?

I would actually rather have an Argus than a Vigil. The Vigils have such a long history of 'unusual' firings and their typical response is that it was within firing parameters. I don't like their firing parameters. If I'm in a Cessna where the door accidentally opens I don't want my aad firing!!!

[spage 0]

I thought so as well, it is at least stated by Aviacom that they are still allowed in Mirage, Wings, Dolphin, Racer, Infinity, Next and Basik.

I have an Argus in one of my two Wings containers, and honestly I really enjoy the datalogging features - it is used for more than just an emergency device.

True you cannot buy them new anymore, but I assumed that OP was going to be looking for something used - and the Argus is extremely available and inexpensive in the used gear market, fitting what he asked for if his container is compatible.

[JerryBaumchen 1,426]

Hi Mark,

Looks like we might be banging heads some more.

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Most, if not all, container manufacturers have never written AADs into their ACO's manual in the first place.

Who says that it is required?

No ACO that I know of offers any type of guidelines as to what must be in the 'specifications' that are to be submitted.

Many years ago, PIA contracted with some consultant in Ohio for 'guidelines' on owner's manuals but that effort really never went anywhere as no one, that I know of, ever followed those 'guidelines' that he developed.

JerryBaumchen

[rss_v 0]

the Mars M2 one looks interesting - and quite cheap. A 15-year lifespan hopefully means good resale value, then I need to mostly just consider the cost of lost interest on the money if I had instead kept it in my bank account.

[davelepka 4]

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I need to mostly just consider the cost of lost interest on the money if I had instead kept it in my bank account.

No, you don't. An AAD isn't an investment strategy, it's a safety strategy.

It's a double-edged sword - if you don't jump all that much, your lack of currency or experience makes an AAD a good idea. If you jump all the time, your increased exposure to risk makes an AAD a good idea.

All of the AADs out there cost about same. With that said, your decision is more functional then financial. If you're going to buy an AAD, buy the best one for the job, not the one that's $100 or $200 less than the others.

[rss_v 0]

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I need to mostly just consider the cost of lost interest on the money if I had instead kept it in my bank account.

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No, you don't.

Unless you're going to buy one for me, with your money, yes - I do.

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An AAD isn't an investment strategy, it's a safety strategy.

Clearly.

***
It's a double-edged sword - if you don't jump all that much, your lack of currency or experience makes an AAD a good idea. If you jump all the time, your increased exposure to risk makes an AAD a good idea.

All of the AADs out there cost about same. With that said, your decision is more functional then financial. If you're going to buy an AAD, buy the best one for the job, not the one that's $100 or $200 less than the others.

I don't want an AAD at all and my reason for getting one would simply be that DZ's require them, to tick that box. My decision between AADs is almost entirely financial, therefore.

[piisfish 140]

if the interest of 1500$ is THAT important, you might want to reconsider your budget for the activity... Grosso modo 1 jump ticket a year ?

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[IanHarrop 42]

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I don't want an AAD at all and my reason for getting one would simply be that DZ's require them, to tick that box. My decision between AADs is almost entirely financial, therefore.

If that's case I'd suggest buying a timed-out Cypres. Put it in you rig and never turn it on. Don't even bother to thread the closing loop through the cutter.

You have met the requirement to have an AAD installed in your rig, check the box.

Cheap and will not interfere with the operation of your reserve

"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

[Deimian 43]

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If that's case I'd suggest buying a timed-out Cypres. Put it in you rig and never turn it on. Don't even bother to thread the closing loop through the cutter.

You have met the requirement to have an AAD installed in your rig, check the box.

Cheap and will not interfere with the operation of your reserve

Am I the only one that would ban somebody from my DZ (if I were a DZO) for playing that game? I think it is obvious that the purpose of that rule is not to force skydivers to have an AAD in their rig, but to have it working. Having a non-working AAD, or don't turn it on on purpose is playing to be a smart ass in my opinion. And I don't think many DZO would want to have smart asses in their DZs.

[Scrumpot 1]

feeding the trolls again I see, eh Dave?

Not sure how many times, and how many ways this OP is going to over & over again, basically post (and posit) the relatively same thing.

Here - OP... I'll help you out (in advance) on your next (anticipated) question:

"I find myself in freefall, I'm on my own personal now bought 'cheap' rig. I just had the reserve repacked, and I've only made 3 jumps on it since. But I've got this horrible looking ball of Sh** of a main now over my head. ...Should I cut away now, knowing my repack $$ haven't been amortized over a significant enough # of jumps yet to "break even", or try to keep the $$ in my bank for my full anticipated 180 days & then ...what would by potential cost(s) differential(s) be?"

Sorry. I just could not resist.

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[piisfish 140]

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If that's case I'd suggest buying a timed-out Cypres. Put it in you rig and never turn it on. Don't even bother to thread the closing loop through the cutter.

You have met the requirement to have an AAD installed in your rig, check the box.

Cheap and will not interfere with the operation of your reserve

unless you are your own rigger, I don't think it would work... Generally the texts are : If installed, an AAD must be maintained and installed as per manufacturer guidelines.

In France apparently years ago they had an "epidemy" of fake Cypres displays, so they started turning them on during gear check

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[billvon 3,064]

>What would be the cheapest way to tick the "has an AAD" box that doesn't actually
>make him less safe?

Cypres 1.

[ChrisD 0]

I'm in a real shitty mood today,

POINT ONE: Your original question is fucked up and stupid, please don't try to manipulate me or anyone else I know by setting the stage and carefully "framing" your questions to suit your own agenda.

POINT TWO: This subject has been beat to death elswhere on this forum, please do a search before,yet again, you waste my time and others, (and yes I am aware the rest of you are fully capeable of defendiny yourselves.)

Fucking POINT THREE: "I don't want an AAD at all and my reason for getting one would simply be that DZ's require them, to tick that box. My decision between AADs is almost entirely financial, therefore."


A LOT OF OTHER PEOPLE WHO HAVE YEARS OF EXPERIENCE KNOW BETTER THAN YOU! BUY THE FUCKING AAD OR DON'T JUMP,...

YOUR ATTITUDE SUCKS!!!

But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."