coho21 0 #26 October 24, 2002 I'm no expert but.... What if the brake lines are already on the point of deflecting the tail. At this point wouldn't it be better to lengthen the risers in order to get more out of the control inputs than shorten the brake lines thereby deflecting the tail even further? Just a thought. J YSD#0009 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #27 October 24, 2002 Who said they were already deflecting the tail? Did I miss that?quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #28 October 24, 2002 I re-edited that Paul... its NOT the best way. >I don't know of a lot of brakelines that can't accept being shortend by 3 inches just by re-doing the fingertrap at the toggle attachment point. My Cobalt, Jedei, and Spectre could'nt have taken another 3 inches inside the control lines with out bunching up. The only way to shove that much material back inside the spectra it to cut the steering lines shorter then refnger trap. Thats all rigger work too. Its might have been cheaper to just sell the used risers and get another set of used risers that are longer. I spent all last weekend adjusting my brakes to fight this same issue on the Jedei.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #29 October 24, 2002 Quote I've seen 25 inch risers custom built for a guy with REALLY long arms. I jump 21's but have used 23's and it was a big difference. The slider was almost out of reach and the stall point was at lower chest level instead of at my hips. And I've seen and jumped with Michele. Believe me, she doesn't have really long arms! quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fool 0 #30 October 24, 2002 Nice work michele. To be completely honest when I saw the length of the post, I initially was like, ok, skip it (attention span of a gnat..) I did however read it, and was touched. When you were talking of quitting I wanted to yell NOOOOOOO!, then thought about the physics involved in you hearing me through my monitor, and decided against. I'm so very glad we didn't lose one today, and even more that YOU are proud of YOU. That's so very excellent. I too hope someday to take a formal canopy flight school. Until then I guess I will have to take the free coaching from our local GURU. S.E.X. party #1 "Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "f*#k, what a ride". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
coho21 0 #31 October 24, 2002 Quote I don't know of a lot of brakelines that can't accept being shortend by 3 inches just by re-doing the fingertrap at the toggle attachment point. No-one. Just throwing out a What If scenario to the above statement.J YSD#0009 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #32 October 24, 2002 >And I've seen and jumped with Michele. Believe me, she doesn't have really long arms! No, but she mentioned she could'nt stall it and the slider was right in her face. Longer risers are a simple fix for this.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #33 October 24, 2002 Quote I re-edited that Paul... its NOT the best way. Oh, in that case, you're just wrong. Changing the brakeline length IS the best way. From what I understand, there's no law that says your rigger can't cut the brakelines inside a bit shorter to accomodate things. Hell of a lot less expensive than getting new risers AND that's not what riser length is normally about anyway.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
n2skdvn 0 #34 October 24, 2002 Congrats michelle!!! glad you went through with it and stayed. hope to jump with ya soon! BTW when are you going to enter the pro blade comp lol if my calculations are correct SLINKY + ESCULATOR = EVERLASTING FUN my site Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #35 October 24, 2002 Quote What if the brake lines are already on the point of deflecting the tail. At this point wouldn't it be better to lengthen the risers in order to get more out of the control inputs than shorten the brake lines thereby deflecting the tail even further? No. If the tail was being deflected with the risers all the way up, then the best course of action would be to have the brakelines lengthened by a rigger. Usually, all this means is the rigger re-does the fingertrap at the toggle attachment point. Cost? What $5? What are new risers going to cost? $75? ALSO, just swapping the risers for longer ones, wouldn't do ANYTHING for the brakeline trim at full flight anyway. Think about it.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
QuickDraw 0 #36 October 24, 2002 I nearly didn't read this post, (because i am idle) but wow what a great story. You wear your heart on your sleeve and say it like it is, people like myself and other students thrive on information like this, simply because we don't know what we're supposed to feel, everyone looks so cool about it, and you end up starting to question yourself and your motives. Something that i was told by most of the peeps on here is :Slow is smooth & smooth is fast. I will always think of that, probably in everything i do, but when applied to learning i think it comes into it's own. I only watched your video again just tonight, (before i read your post) and i know you can do it gurl ! Keep the faith Remember :To ask is a moments humiliation not to ask is a lifetimes shame -- Hope you don't die. -- I'm fucking winning Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
coho21 0 #37 October 24, 2002 Yep, of course you're right.I was actually just thinking about this very same thing. J YSD#0009 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #38 October 24, 2002 >Cost? What $5? Damn... I want your rigger Paul. Most lower lines I've played with are finger traped then bar tacked to prevent the knots from un poping. Its $5 in just material to replace a lower line since you are best to just cut it off since undoing bartacks is nasty work. Its basically this, if the steering lines are taken in then too much you'll distort the tail of the canopy in flight. If they're too long, you may not be able to get deep enough in the flare to reach the stall point.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChileRelleno 0 #39 October 24, 2002 Quote It hasn't ended. It has, honestly, just begun..... That is what I meant, that your day ended happily with your knowing that the adventure was not over. Versus going home disheartened and letting go of the dream... ChileRelleno-Rodriguez Bro#414 Hellfish#511,MuffBro#3532,AnvilBro#9, D24868 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wingnut 0 #40 October 24, 2002 congats michele.... i remeber when i was trying to learn to land my sabre in no wind days...i mastered the art of sliding on my butt.....can't it untill nexttime i'm at perris... ______________________________________ "i have no reader's digest version" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #41 October 24, 2002 Tell me again why they're bar tacking it? I'll admit it would be FOOLISH to just rely on the fingertrap. Too many people have died from that. But a simple overhand knot at the fingertrap works just fine, doesn't require replacing anything and costs -- again -- a lot less. Quote Its basically this, if the steering lines are taken in then too much you'll distort the tail of the canopy in flight. If they're too long, you may not be able to get deep enough in the flare to reach the stall point. And I'm thinking, that this was Michele's problem to begin with, not so much riser length. HOWEVER, I'm more than open to an explaination that would include riser length if she could provide one.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
seedy 0 #42 October 24, 2002 Michele - so glad you came back to the forums so you could regale us so eloquently with your adventures. Keep the good stories coming and Blue Skies always. I intend to live forever -- so far, so good. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dterrick 0 #43 October 24, 2002 Quote And yes, I'll meet you at the swoop pond in 5 years - sooner if you want to picnic there... Lovely excuse for a picnic and with a 'show' too. Next time I'm visiting my sis in San Fran I'll get an exit aisle seat on a flight to LA and.... swooooopppthe Dave Life is very short and there's no time for fussing and fighting my friend (Lennon/McCartney) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bps 0 #44 October 24, 2002 Nice Michelle. Glad to see that things are working out and that you are sticking with it. I can assure you, that we've all been there before. Big Blue Skies, Bryan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snowbird 0 #45 October 24, 2002 Michele, thank you again for your writing! You are awesome. You had me hanging on every word. When I read the beginning I was gaping in desbelief. What? You just got your canopy! You can't quit! But I just knew it wouldn't happen, so I kept reading in good faith... and I'm so very happy for you! Quote We do watch the tape, and you really can't see anything other than how nicely I land. I look at Jim, and say "well, I landed perfectly. Now teach me to swoop", and he cracks up. LMAOAnd I see at the end that you selling your canopy is not even a question now. I love that! Not even a consideration by the end of the day. I think this one is worth HH adding to your earlier pieces. Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea. -Robert A. Heinlein Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jbrasher 1 #46 October 25, 2002 Way to go girl. Red, White and Blue Skies, John T. Brasher D-5166 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
f1freak 0 #47 October 25, 2002 wow... 2 cool... HAVE FUN... ...JUST DONT DIE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #48 October 25, 2002 No, selling my canopy is not gonna happen. Maybe in 200 jumps or so...but not yet. And thank you for thinking this should be added to the column section... Quade? Here's how I understand it. As I am new to the technical languaging, I will avoid it. But I will explain this as best I can. 1. In full flight, no tension on the toggles at all, hands looped into the toggles, my hands at eye level. 2. In full flare, hands down as far as I can get them, toggles in my palm instead of fingers (better grip), hands in a fist, triceps aching, elbows locked, my hands are about midthigh. 3. Slack taken up from full flight to no deflection of the tail but at the point where the slightest movement will start to apply brakes, my hands are just above my collar bone. 4. From the crown of my head to my palm, I measure 42 inches. From the crown of my head to the top of my shoulder, I measure 14.75 inches. From my shoulder to my palm, I measure 27 inches. From my collarbone to my ear, I measure 6.2 inches. My chest measures 41 inches (not necessary, but thought I'd interject that one...). 5. The brake lines were installed by PD just prior to my buying the canopy, and were measured and are standard length. The work was done by PD (yes, I have the invoice). 6. The slider, when stowed, is just above eye level, resting at the bottom of the lines, situated on top of the riser plastic guards. 7. The risers I was using on the rental canopy measure 21 inches. I have used 22 inches, and couldn't reach the slider. To take all the slack out of the lines, and not deflect the tail, I have to move the toggles down about 6-7 inches. That's the start of my flare point. I don't know where the end of my stroke is, because I can't reach it yet. The brake lines, being factory manufactured and installed, aren't yet the problem, while installing longer risers will correct the issue. From what I understand, the canopy is in great trim, and as the risers didn't come with the canopy but were lent to me from my rigger, I need to buy a set anyway. But Jim didn't know that, so it doesn't factor into his solution. Shortening the brake lines, at this point, may make the shrinkage of them more apparent (or sooner, I can't figure out which), while riser length will alter my flare point to where I can find the bottom of the flare point without leaning forward and distorting my body (which would mean I couldn't land well, because I'd be releasing the flare when I straightened up for touchdown, which would allow the canopy to surge forward - not something good when you're close to the ground...) I suppose you could say it like this: the length of the brake lines aren't the problem, the risers are. I am curious as to why you believe that shortening the brake lines would be better than getting new risers, other than expense (and lord knows I can't absorb that expense right now too easily). Jim made the recommendation and I will go with it. I'm sorry I can't give you a better explanation, but that's what I understood, and I will defer to his knowledge and extensive experience. Maybe he'll explain why if you ask him at the DZ? Or I can try to get a better one next time I'm scheduled to play with him. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scoby 0 #49 October 25, 2002 I'm also a 43 jump wonder at the moment. As you know, I'm planning on taking the course. The only thing holding me back is the lack of my own gear, and that's finally being sorted. I'm glad to hear that you had such a positive experience. I know you're going to figure out this landing thing, and keep jumping and learning. Good for you! I can't wait to do it myself. Do you know if they do it through the winter? I should be ready to go in a month or so. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
robzay 0 #50 October 25, 2002 Great job, well done. That's the Michele I've read before. Keep it up! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
