Eleventh Sign of the Apocalypse

[FallRate 0]

Watching Max X tonight (I only have one channel), and the episode is devoted to police chases. In one of the little episodes a couple of guys wrecked their car and then tried to hide in a river. The cops sent two German Shepherds in to do "something". (?!) One of the guys drug a dog underwater and was subsequently charged with attempting to kill a police dog. I have heard of this before, the cops unleash the dogs. The "suspect" doesn't feel like having his nose bitten off so he clocks the dog, and then winds up with felony charges of assaulting a police officer.

!!!!!!!!!??????????

I give the world three more years!

FallRate

[jumpy 0]

that kinda thing happened here in Australia a couple of years ago..the cops unleashed the dogs and the dude knifed one of em and almost killed it. i think he was charged with attemped murder of a police officer and probably got into some crap with animal cruelty laws as well which i personally have no problem with. if some dudes threatening people with a knife in my opinion he deserves to get his leg chewed off

[jose 0]

That Max X show is great, but there is something that you have to realize. These shows, while great for visual entertaiment, are full of bullshit audio commentary that just makes it that much more interesting. Really, dont believe half the crap those moron commentators say.
On the other hand, if you attack or attempt to harm a police dog you will suffer legal penalties just as if you attacted a human P.O. All K-9's are full peace officers, with their own badge number. The rules are simple, you will be warned to surrender or whatever several times before a K-9 is sent in. If you fail to do what the cops say and they have warned you that they will send in the dog you deserve what you get. To beat up on the dog is not self defense.
Lets say you have a gun in your hand while you are walking down the street. You are not pointing it at anyone, but it is illegal nevertheless. So the cops come, and one approaches you with his gun drawn and pointing at you and tells you to drop your weapon and lie down. If you raise your gun up you are going to get shot and most likely killed. Can youf claim self defense for this? Hell no. You were breaking the law in the first place and to say that beating, stabbing, shooting, kicking or any other wanton malice on a police dog is self-defense is just plain stupid.
I am a huge dog lover, and as fucked up as this might sound, the purposeful killing of a police dog just to defeat capture is more malicious than the killing of a human.

[ECVZZ 0]

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the purposeful killing of a police dog just to defeat capture is more malicious than the killing of a human.

Y'know, the logic behind this statement just completely escapes me.

G. Jones

"I've never been quarantined. But the more I look around, the more I think it might not be a bad idea."

[skydiverbrian 0]

The only reason we have police dogs is because the cops aren't allowed to just shoot anymore. Now they have to use non-lethal means. I'm for switching back to the good old days where they shoot first and ask questions later. (Of course, today we have tasers, so that's the best of both worlds)

With the exception of some small towns in Alabama and Tennessee, the cops won't chase you unless you've committed a crime. That makes you a criminal, and you had damn well better know that surrender is better than pursuit. If it takes a couple of dipshits getting shot to learn the lesson, then so be it.

In a world full of people, only some want to fly... isn't that crazy! --Seal

[JDBoston 0]

I have no problem with the book being thrown at people for doing something like that. All else aside, those dogs are f***'in EXPENSIVE to train. I don't know exactly how much they cost but I think it's at least in the tens of thousands of dollars. Way too much to let some lowlife get away with killing one.

The way your post reads it sounds as if these guys were running away from the cops (police chase?). I think the cops should be able to do whatever they want to stop someone who has been trying to outrun them in a car. How many times do you read about some asshole trying to outrun the cops and crashing into a pedestrian or another innocent driver or something? Engaging cops in a car chase should, in my opinion, carry a charge of the same severity as attempted murder. Or first-degree stupidity. They deserve what they get, even after the chase ends.

Joe

[Zenister 0]

my only issue with this is that it only applies to police dogs?!?

its a double standard. if a police dog is the same as a human officer than my dog is worth just as much to me..so when you run over someone elses dog it, you should now be put away for vehicular manslaughter?

cant have it both ways. its a dog or its not. training it and giving it a badge number doesnt change that.

ive told MPs before (the guy was being an ass and trying to intmidate me with his k9) that if he let it go i was going to kill it.

(FYI he got the article 15,video proved i was being cooperative while he was playing e3 on a powertrip)

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[homer 0]

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so when you run over someone elses dog

like my parents always told me, you kill it you eat it.

CSA #699 Muff #3804

[riggerrob 643]

" ... or first degree stupidity."
Half the criminals in jail got their through their own stupidity.
Police policy is very simple: if you run from the cops, you will get beaten, bitten, etc.
Too bad guys like Rodney King have to learn policy the hard way.
As for the difference between killing a police dog and a police officer, ... either way you should spend a long time in jail.
As for the difference between killing a civilian dog and a police dog .... at a bare minimum you should be liable for replacing the civilian dog ... after you cook and eat the dog you just killed.
As for injuring civilians, you should have a 50 pound weight tied to your ankle for as long as the victim's leg is in a cast.

[Deuce 1]

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I have no problem with the book being thrown at people for doing something like that. All else aside, those dogs are f***'in EXPENSIVE to train. I don't know exactly how much they cost but I think it's at least in the tens of thousands of dollars.

They were about 12 grand from the Kennel my old department got them from. They imported the dogs from Germany. You add in the cop for the first month of intensive training at 7 grand with benefits and one day a week off to train. They are really expensive, but they are regarded as much more disposable than the human officer.

Most of the K-9 handlers love their dogs as much as they love their children. I've seen a couple of "tough" guys cry like babies when their dogs were injured. They aren't cops, except for the purposes of argument, but they are surely members of the police family.

[jfields 0]

I agree with Zenister about the double standard. Police dogs are dogs. In this country, animals do not have the same rights as people. If you start trying to give *some* animals the same rights as people, are you basically inferring that as a species, dogs are equivalent to people? I both disagree with and resent that.

I'm not saying that police dogs aren't useful tools for the officer enforcing the law. They are. So are a squad car and a firearm. But they are just that... tools. Same with the dog. The dog is not an officer of the law. I don't accept that. The dog can not read me my Miranda rights. The dog can not evaluate a crime in progress and have the judgement to know how much force to use. A smart police dog can respond instantly and correctly to the commands of its human partner/handler, and act to project the human officer's authority. But the dog itself has no authority.

Veterinarians in this country are not required to have malpractice insurance, because there is a very small limit to the liability they face, even in the event of gross negligence. The liability is limited to the value of the property, which is how animals are considered. Our legal system has reaffirmed that repeatedly.

Is a police dog smarter than a brain-damaged human in a vegitative state? Perhaps, but the human is still a person and has rights accordingly in our society. The smarter dog does not. Like it or not, in the US, we've said that humans are more important than (other) animals. Personally, I like it that way. I believe animals should be treated well, but I don't put their welfare on the same scale as human treatment.

[jose 0]

[jraf 0]

I wonder.

1. If I go to a Korean restaurant and eat a dog that was a police dog obducted from a K9 unit by villans, am I a cannibal?
2. If I am stopped by a K9 unit should I adress the dog as Osifer Hackelbery
3. What if Osifer Hackelbery starts sniffing my crotch - can I accuse the four legged lech of sexual abuse?
4. Since Osifer Hackelbery is not wearing his trousers should I not conduct a citizens arrest and retain him for public exposure?
5. What if Osifer Hackelbery starts screwing a passing she dog? Is that rape? How do we know that the she dog is of age and there is no statutory rape involved?

jraf

Me Jungleman! Me have large Babalui.
Muff #3275

[billvon 3,070]

>Is a police dog smarter than a brain-damaged human in a vegitative
> state? Perhaps, but the human is still a person and has rights
> accordingly in our society.

I would argue he does not. We pretty much define humanity as a human mind, not a body. A human body that is 100% alive but brain dead can legally be murdered under a great many conditions (his own DNR request, his family signing a DNR and agreeing to withdrawal of life support.) Of course we don't call it murder since that's a legal term; it would be more accurate to say legal termination of life of a body.

This is carried into emergency medicine as well. About the only time paramedics in most states won't even try to resuscitate someone is if they've been decapitated or their brain has been clearly destroyed. They might be able to get the body back to the hospital and get it hooked up to life support while the organs are still viable; but without a brain, there's just no point (beyond organ donation if that applies.)

[Deuce 1]

Yeah.

Homicide versus murder. Malicious intent. Doctors commit homicide when they unhook life support from someone who needs it. No malicious intent.

Hoo. Dark observation.

[Iflyme 0]

I'm mighty glad there are police dogs and dog handlers out there ... but I don't think it should be considered "murder" when a criminal kills one.. I DO think that criminal, however, should be severely punished.

And I would never put an animal's life ahead of a humans.

[VivaHeadDown 0]

The idea is that you take the dogs as serious as the human. They are bothed trained as representatives of the law. If there was no serious punishment for killing the dog, then there is no way animal rights would allow a dog to be put in harms way as often as K-9 units are. I think they are a great thing, and should carry a very heavy penalty if harmed.

[Zenister 0]

If the human bites my arm I’m going to break his neck too, officer or no.

sorry but the threat of punishment doesnt justify putting the animal in harms way from a animal rights perspective.

its a dog, they are all equally worthwhile or worthless. Your saying because its job puts it at risk its more valuable than my pet?!? Sorry doesn’t fly with me.

If you use the animal as a tool then it’s a tool, not a pet, and you can expect it to get damaged. Destruction of police property should be about the limit of it. IMO

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[jfields 0]

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A human body that is 100% alive but brain dead can legally be murdered under a great many conditions (his own DNR request, his family signing a DNR and agreeing to withdrawal of life support.)

Those are instances where a person or their family has willfully relinquished certain rights. The dog never has the rights in the first place. Animals can only be property, albeit loved and cherished property to many. If I were to walk up to someone's dog, pull out a gun, and kill the dog, I would be liable for the financial value of the dog. The person's emotional attachment is not legally relevant. It would be like wrecking someone's car.

I'm not advocating animal cruelty, but, for many reasons, I dispute the idea that an animal has equivalent rights to a human, no matter how highly trained or valuable the animal.