diablopilot 2 #26 April 24, 2007 QuoteYep. But the "higher airspeed" part of that worries me. If you get it by distorting the airfoil (double fronts) or a radical manuever (single front riser turn) then you are at greater risk of collapse. Such distortions/maneuvers can increase the likelihood of collapse. Agreed. Big hook turns in turbulence are just asking for trouble.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AFFI 0 #27 April 24, 2007 QuoteThat video was already removed from this website once. Why? Glad I got a chance to receive the link, I found it educational. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yeyo 1 #28 April 24, 2007 QuoteWhy? I can understand why. I hesitated a little to post it and maybe even expecting some flame. -Its too graphic. -Someone died. -Probably someone here was a friend of the deceased or witnesed the accident. -Someone here might even be the owner of the video. Its educational, no doubt. But its something you dont have to actually see it to understand it. If your going towards the ground at 60mph+ and your canopy stops flying at 40'..... Would it be ok to PM the link to someone who asked?HISPA #93 DS #419.5 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #29 April 24, 2007 >But its something you dont have to actually see it to understand it. Thank you for your discretion in posting it. There is no rule against it, but as you mentioned, it is often better to err on the side of not popularizing such videos. PM's are fine; they are a good way to send sensitive material to people who ask for it without making it public. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #30 April 24, 2007 Do you happen to know who has the original? There could be some people not really interested in blood or broken body, but the collapsing canopy. Teach or teach by example? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iamsam 0 #31 April 25, 2007 Quote ..when the canopy has a partial collapse low to the ground, don’t look up! Keep your eyes on where you are going - paying attention to the ground may help more than looking up at a problem you can do little about. Feet and knees together and get ready to knock the earth off it’s axis! - This is a very useful thread thank you all. The above is I think worth repearing for posterity. but what do I know Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #32 April 26, 2007 Quote ..when the canopy has a partial collapse low to the ground, don’t look up! Keep your eyes on where you are going - paying attention to the ground may help more than looking up at a problem you can do little about. Feet and knees together and get ready to knock the earth off it’s axis! Been there, done that, didn't want the T-shirt.PLFs will save you extreme damage. Learn to do them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lastchance 0 #33 April 27, 2007 You made my day with that comment. LMAO. I may be getting old but I got to see all the cool bands. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MB38 0 #34 April 27, 2007 This is a great thread... very informative. Bill, your post in particular was quite something. Reads like another article.I really don't know what I'm talking about. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JENNR8R 0 #35 April 28, 2007 One lesson I learned the hard way that resulted in a sprained ankle, it that when the canopy has a partial collapse low to the ground, don’t look up! Keep your eyes on where you are going - paying attention to the ground may help more than looking up at a problem you can do little about. Quote I wasn't even tempted to look up. I believe that is because I knew what a collapsed canopy feels like. I took Scott Miller's Canopy Course, and one of the exercises he had us do is to collapse our canopies... waaaaay up high where it would be guaranteed to reinflate before arriving at the point where you enter the landing pattern. It was fun. I'd encourage everyone who hasn't tried it to experience the feel where it is safe to do so. That way you will recognize the feel of it when it happens close to the ground, and you won't be tempted to look up when you should be paying attention to where you are going.What do you call a beautiful, sunny day that comes after two cloudy, rainy ones? -- Monday. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites audacium 0 #36 April 29, 2007 QuoteQuote It is always better to go to half brakes when your canopy is collapsing. That's how the canopy was designed to reinflate. It will also surge less as it's reinflating in half brakes. Many people think "that half brake stuff is old news! Modern canopies fly completely differently." They really don't. In moderate turbulence, there are benefits to going to half brakes and benefits to staying in full flight. Generally most canopies do OK at full flight, but in severe turbulence (bad enough that your canopy is distorting significantly) 1/4 to 1/2 brakes can give you some additional margin for error. The twin theories "you can just blast through the turbulence if you're going fast enough" and "the air mattress effect will keep your canopy rigid" don't work. Full flight through turbulence will allow the best chance of making it through without a collapse. If a collapse occurs, then a half brake pump, similar to inflating closed end cells is recomended. I fail to see how being in a braked configuration will prevent a collapse. In my opinion, a collapse occurs when the angle of attack gets too small or even negative. So in order to avoid a too small angle of attack you must increase it. You increase angle of attack by braking. So I would say that with a braked configuration you will have a lower chance to experience a collapse. On the other side you must be careful that you do not create too high an angle of attack for the air you are flying in, i.e. in case of entering an upwind / thermal or getting hit by tailwind. At least this is how it works for paragliding wings, and I do not see a reason why it should be different for skydiving wings. -- Eduard Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ngawang01 0 #37 June 6, 2007 Can you email me the video???? "Can't keep my eyes from the circling skies Tongue-tied and twisted Just an earth-bound misfit, I". pf Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pcrt 0 #38 June 11, 2007 That video had absolutely nothing to do with turbulence (even though the "expert" claims it did). The jumper had her left steering line break while executing a swoop. It's disturbing to see how people take pleasure from watching other people die. When I ran across the video I flagged it as "inappropriate". I also had a few choice words for the poster. Hope everyone else will do the same. ~Paul Creel SCS-5015 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 2 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
audacium 0 #36 April 29, 2007 QuoteQuote It is always better to go to half brakes when your canopy is collapsing. That's how the canopy was designed to reinflate. It will also surge less as it's reinflating in half brakes. Many people think "that half brake stuff is old news! Modern canopies fly completely differently." They really don't. In moderate turbulence, there are benefits to going to half brakes and benefits to staying in full flight. Generally most canopies do OK at full flight, but in severe turbulence (bad enough that your canopy is distorting significantly) 1/4 to 1/2 brakes can give you some additional margin for error. The twin theories "you can just blast through the turbulence if you're going fast enough" and "the air mattress effect will keep your canopy rigid" don't work. Full flight through turbulence will allow the best chance of making it through without a collapse. If a collapse occurs, then a half brake pump, similar to inflating closed end cells is recomended. I fail to see how being in a braked configuration will prevent a collapse. In my opinion, a collapse occurs when the angle of attack gets too small or even negative. So in order to avoid a too small angle of attack you must increase it. You increase angle of attack by braking. So I would say that with a braked configuration you will have a lower chance to experience a collapse. On the other side you must be careful that you do not create too high an angle of attack for the air you are flying in, i.e. in case of entering an upwind / thermal or getting hit by tailwind. At least this is how it works for paragliding wings, and I do not see a reason why it should be different for skydiving wings. -- Eduard Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ngawang01 0 #37 June 6, 2007 Can you email me the video???? "Can't keep my eyes from the circling skies Tongue-tied and twisted Just an earth-bound misfit, I". pf Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pcrt 0 #38 June 11, 2007 That video had absolutely nothing to do with turbulence (even though the "expert" claims it did). The jumper had her left steering line break while executing a swoop. It's disturbing to see how people take pleasure from watching other people die. When I ran across the video I flagged it as "inappropriate". I also had a few choice words for the poster. Hope everyone else will do the same. ~Paul Creel SCS-5015 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
