sar911 0 #26 September 10, 2002 The Golden Knights are the good will ambassadors of our military, country and sport. They give us pride in the same. I think that it is great that or military gives something positive back to our children and us. Everybody wins by having them. They pump money into our economy by drawing spectators to their demos and buying rigs and equipment from our industries. They are positive roll models that leave a twinkle of awe in our children’s eyes. They, like all of the other teams at nationals help raise the level of competition. Are teams have risen to the challenge and have shown why we are the best. Why try and look for bad things when there is so much good to be proud of. God Bless the Golden Knights, all of the competitors and this great country we live in! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jumperpaula 0 #27 September 10, 2002 Yes they should compete. AND WIN !! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #28 September 10, 2002 QuoteThere is a reason cameras are not allowed at try-outs. Thats just the Army. Thats the way it works. Tryouts for GK's is NO differen't than 100 other courses or try outs for other things. Did you have the idea that try outs were out of the ordinary? I can honestly say...I have seen FAR worse "shit" that people had to go through for jobs that probably aren't half as good. I still don't see where people get the impression that the GK's are assholes. I can honestly say I have NEVER found ANY member of the GK's I have ever met to be an asshole. They have all been just regular guys that paid their dues to get a cool job. They skydive and then drink beer when the day is done like anyone else. If anything...that job has to have HUGE drawbacks because you are in the spotlight CONSTANTLY. Personally, I skydive for fun and I like it that way. I don't know that I would like having EVERYONE constantly critiqueing every jump and every Saturday night at the DZ. No thanks....I like my semi anonymous existance. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #29 September 10, 2002 QuotePsssstttt...Hooknswoop used to be in the Army Hmmmm....makes ya wonder..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sebazz1 2 #30 September 10, 2002 Doesn't Airforce and Navy have skydiving teams? Why don't we see them in the nationals. I remember in collegiates a couple of years ago seeing Army and Airforce at least. At night we would use their creepers for practice and say "dude, we paid for these, it's cool" I totaly think GK's should be in Nationals. They can be beaten. We've seen it before. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
prepheckt 0 #31 September 10, 2002 The Air Force Academy has a parachute team...Wings of Blue. They go to Nationals 4 wway intemediate (Air Force Blue and Silver , 2nd place and tied for 5th) and Collegiate Nationals. They're great guys. I tried to join. Didn't make it. Oh well... blue ones"Dancing Argentine Tango is like doing calculus with your feet." -9 toes Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdhill 0 #32 September 10, 2002 There are lots of other military skydiving teams, most of them are demonstration only, the Leap Frogs (the Navy's offical team), Ft. Benning, Ft. Bragg, SF, and some others... West Point and the Air Force Academy (not sure about Navy) have collegiate teams.All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #33 September 10, 2002 QuoteThats just the Army. Thats the way it works. Tryouts for GK's is NO differen't than 100 other courses or try outs for other things. Did you have the idea that try outs were out of the ordinary? You weren't there, I was. 1996. Hook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #34 September 10, 2002 QuoteYou weren't there, I was Didn't go through it, No. Had no desire to. Still don't. However I did jump at Raeford for 1 year and lived at Ft. Bragg for two. 1998-2000. Was in the Air Force for almost 10 years and worked directly with the Army for 6 1/2 of those. I know a thing or two about it. Oh and almost forgot. I have put down several beers with Paul Rafferty (NCOIC of the selection comittee) when he would stop by the "SkyMonkey Zone." Many more with his brother Bill. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamsville 0 #35 September 10, 2002 They were cool to me and jumped with us when they came to practice at SDC. Glad to see them do so well at 4- and 8-way so far. There are a number of teams, but GKs may be the closest thing our country has to skydiving ambassadors. HarryI don't drink during the day, so I don't know what it is about this airline. I keep falling out the door of the plane. Harry, FB #4143 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #36 September 10, 2002 QuotePaychecks, medical/dental benifits, life insurance, paychecks if they get injured and cannot jump anymore, paid holidays, paid vacations, uniform allowance, room and board, etc. I'm guessing that you've never served in the Armed Forces. If you had, you would realize that glowing list of benefits comes at a high price in personal freedom, and you can't just walk away if you don't like the people you're stuck with. Being in the armed services ain't all its cracked up to be. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #37 September 10, 2002 Quotethat glowing list of benefits comes at a high price in personal freedom No doubt!!! They don't call it "Serving" for nothin. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjasantos 0 #38 September 10, 2002 Hi everyone! Here is my opinion: What would those people say if the GK, spending the same money they spent from the US Taxes, would had shown a poor instead of an awesome performance? I think this kind of comments that some misinformed people have done on the US Army Team, just reveals their biased behavior towards the military… As a military myself, now retired, I may say that we have the same attitude back here in Portugal from some individuals… the reason to worry should be not showing any good results while spending the citizens tax contributions... If I would be a US citizen, I would be worried (although that is a minor matter regarding the US as a whole) if the US Army Team could not perform at high level… but you are fortunate, because the Golden Knights, even not winning at all times, have always shown to those who have noticed their career, that they have always performed at very high level… The decision of placing the effort on the 4-way FS, at least as I know, taken and headed by John Hoover, GK Team Captain, has now proved to be a successful one and with a lot of strategic meaning: he saw there was an opportunity to regain the leading from the other US world-class top teams, as Arizona Airspeed, and GK went for it, at full power, and definitely with a lot of sacrifices of each of their team members. They achieved something, that specially now, looked an impossible mission: to become the new 4-way FS US Champions! So, those throwing stones on their success, should be pleased because actually they have demonstrated how good they can be maximizing their results for their budget... the issue here shouldn't be if their budget comes from the citizens income taxes… My applause to the Golden Knights, both for their performance and for the way they managed to keep a “low and quiet profile” while performing at their best! Their bright attitude, has helped them to put the pressure on the other rivals (as Arizona Airspeed Vertical and DeLand Majik)… I must say that I’m an Airspeed fan and supporter, and will continue to be, but I must say either that, apart from their condition as military on duty, the GK have the same winning spirit and the very same discipline (of course with slight differences, derived from the fact that they are a different team) which characterizes teams as Arizona Airspeed that represented US in the past… Blue Skies to them all! ----------------------------- Mario Santos Portugal Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #39 September 10, 2002 Well said Mario!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflyswc 0 #40 September 10, 2002 I think it would be pretty funny if someone grabbed one of their rigs and started to the plane , with the excuse that the rig is just as much theirs as the knights because they pay taxes!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #41 September 10, 2002 Quotegrabbed one of their rigs and started to the plane I think you might just get pummeled..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bbarnhouse 0 #42 September 10, 2002 Mario.... Thanks that about says it all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflyswc 0 #43 September 10, 2002 That's why I said it would be cool to see (meaning someone other than me ) Any volunteers??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #44 September 10, 2002 QuoteI'm guessing that you've never served in the Armed Forces. If you had, you would realize that glowing list of benefits comes at a high price in personal freedom, and you can't just walk away if you don't like the people you're stuck with. Being in the armed services ain't all its cracked up to be. 6 years, U.S. Army. 1991-1997. AH-64A Apache Crewchief. QuotePaychecks, medical/dental benifits, life insurance, paychecks if they get injured and cannot jump anymore, paid holidays, paid vacations, uniform allowance, room and board, etc. Airspeed doesn't have all those benifits. I was responding to another post that claimed other teams besides the gk's had the same advantages the gk's have. No other U.S. team has the deal the gk's have. Hook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bbarnhouse 0 #45 September 10, 2002 Hook... I NEVER said all. But don't kid yourself.......they ain't hurtin any. Cheers darlin' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #46 September 11, 2002 I have no idea where my original response got to, so I will reiterate: First, the Golden Knights do not have "their own wind tunnel". True, the best wind tunnel on the planet is at Fort Bragg, but it belongs to the JFK Special Warfare Center and School and was constructed solely for the purpose of training military freefall parachutists. This, because the one we previously had to use at Wright Patterson AFB sucked completely. The time that the GK's get to use the tunnel is when regularly scheduled special operations units or the MFF school are not in there; typically from 0530 until about 0730 in the morning on day's when they can talk Mike Sweeny into coming in that early. Since Mike is a GK alumni, he makes concessions for them on a semi-regular basis. Second: people don't just "walk on" to the GK competition teams. With VERY few exceptions, every competitor spent his time out on the road as a demonstrator. Raw RW talent is not all that it takes to get onto the team; just ask Ron Hill (now back on Frost, in Florida after a shitty three years in the "regular" army). He rolled the dice several times and did not get selected. Unfortunate; he is a good skydiver. While there is probably not a nicer skydiving job in the USA, it is certainly not as glamourous as some would have you believe. Anybody out there think a buck sergeant in the army makes good cash? Better think again. As far as teams with better deals, consider the way the French team does it (or at least they way they did it back when I competed in 4-way in the early 90's). The French government fully subsidizes that team. Anyone with the talent to try out for vacant slots is welcome. They make exactly what they did before they made the team, for the entire duration of their stay. For example, if I were a mechanical engineer making say $70K a year, when I made the team the French government would pay me that amount until I left. How's that for nice? This on top of all your gear and training jumps. The Russian team was made up entirely of military guys last time I cared to check. They are also fully subsidized by their government. Not sure if that has changed, but once again, I know it used to be that way. So, you see, the GK team does not have it nearly as good as some teams do. Consider this: our guys still pay for gear to go to the world meet. They are not allowed to accept equipment as "gifts" from sponsors, so they all end up paying for it, albeit at a much reduced price. GK competitors and demonstrators are two different animals. Each section has a very different mission, but both do very good at achieving their designated goals. I am married to a six-year veteran of the Golden Knights. She was a member of the cadre when Derek (hook) went to tryouts. I understand the anymosity; I went in 1990, made every one of the 100 skydives (back when the program was only one month long), finished the program, but didn't get my jacket because SF branch didn't want to release two guys. I was one ANGRY motherfucker for a long time after that, but eventually got over it. Tryouts is simply a game designed to weed out unbecoming attitudes and train you in basic demonstrator skills. OK, I am done rambling for a bit. Just let me close with this: Five-time 8-way world champion Paul Rafferty is one of my best friends, as is newly crowned 4-way champion Chris Talbert. These monkeys still get out and skydive on weekends for shits and grins and are TOTALLY approachable. I went to tryouts with Joe Trinko, Cary Mills, Tim Wagner, J.K. Davis; all ended up on the 8-way team. I never saw attitude out of any of them, ever. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #47 September 11, 2002 Quote6 years, U.S. Army Thank you for your service! But now I'm confused. If you think military life and bennies are so great, how come you didn't do 20 years and retire? John Rich 5 years, USMC Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #48 September 11, 2002 QuoteIf you think military life and bennies are so great, how come you didn't do 20 years and retire? Probably the same reason I didn't stay after 9 years 6 months and 6 days of active duty. Got tired of the bullshit, bored with the mission, and definately tired of moving 4 times in 5 years. That just wasn't worth ~$1000 a month for retirement. Not to me anyway. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #49 September 11, 2002 QuoteThank you for your service! But now I'm confused. If you think military life and bennies are so great, how come you didn't do 20 years and retire? And thank you for your service as well. I never said military life was so great. I said that the gk's had a laundry list of benifits over team like Airspeed and Majik. The gk's don't have the pressure to win that non-funded teams have. If the gk's don't perform, worst case they go back to whatever they were doing in the Army before they were on the team. Civilian teams would have to find a job if their sponsorship was cut off. I also said that there wasn't any other U.S. team that had the advantages that the gk's have, foriegn teams are diffferrent Hook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallRate 0 #50 September 11, 2002 It may be a little late to enter the fray, but I was thinking... The Golden Knights may have "unfair" advantages but it has not led to unfair competition. The fact that the Knights don't sweep every competition is evidence of that. FallRate Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
