SivaGanesha 2 #1 June 6, 2007 I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts regarding how to approach AFF training. Here is my background. I'm 41 years old--I have a total of 85 jumps but most of them were many years ago in Canada. Most of my jumps were between 1983-1986--I made my first jump on May 28, 1983 at the age of 17. I was trained on the old static line system using mostly round canopies, so progress was rather slow. However, after about 50 jumps, I did complete the requirements for a CSPA (Canadian Sport Parachuting Association) A license. Unfortunately I am not in a position where I can document any of that history. I never sent in the paperwork to CSPA to actually get the license, and in one of my many moves, I misplaced my logbook. I simply drifted away from the sport but now I sure wish I'd completed the paperwork since it would serve to document my history even if I'm not current. I now live in the United States. In 1999, I made two jumps--a tandem and an AFF 1--which I do have logged in a new logbook. Recently I've been feeling a strong pull to complete the AFF training. My sense has been that I should essentially start from scratch with the AFF program--so I guess my first question would be whether others might agree with that decision. It seems there are several good reasons for this. One is that I can't document most of my past history. Plus I never did have that many jumps, and what I did have was a LONG time ago, and I was trained on the static line system--meaning that there are probably things about freefall that I never learned that everyone learns now. My second question concerns specific recent jumps. I did an AFF Cat A jump about 10 days ago at Skydance Skydiving in Davis, CA. It went fine and I moved on to AFF Cat B. The AFF Cat B jump didn't go quite as well and I need to repeat the level. One of the instructors let go of me (unintentionally) and I decided to wait until he caught up before beginning the planned events on the dive. Unfortunately, what this meant was that there was enough time for the practice pulls, COA, etc., but no time for turns before I had to lock on, wave off, and pull. So they want me to do the jump again and get the turns right. So I'm wondering whether--if an instructor lets go unintentionally--whether I should just continue with the planned sequence of events with just the one instructor. I am very confident in my ability to do everything that is being asked of me so far because it is all stuff I did many years ago in qualifying for my A. Any thoughts how I should handle this? I feel like I lost a dive because of the instructor letting go even though it is all stuff I already know. I am going to try my Cat B jump again this weekend. Thanks for any ideas you might have! David"It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Morrison79 0 #2 June 6, 2007 I just finshed my AFF and now I am doing my coach jumps. From what I was told if you lose one instructor as long as you are still stable and altitude aware that you can continue on with the jump. How long was your one instructor gone? If you only did PP's and COA he must of been gone for the whole damn jump. AFF levels should be no problem for you since you already have experience. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SivaGanesha 2 #3 June 6, 2007 QuoteI just finshed my AFF and now I am doing my coach jumps. From what I was told if you lose one instructor as long as you are still stable and altitude aware that you can continue on with the jump. How long was your one instructor gone? If you only did PP's and COA he must of been gone for the whole damn jump. AFF levels should be no problem for you since you already have experience. I'd say he was gone for about half the freefall. After finishing my PP's and second COA--and ready to begin my turns--I was right at 7000 feet. I have since learned that 7000 feet is the threshold for starting the turns--below 7000 feet one doesn't attempt the turns; but above 7000 feet one should try them, all the while remaining altitude aware. So I was very close to being able to do them and I'm sure it will be easy if I don't lose all that time again on the next jump."It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 1 #4 June 6, 2007 QuoteSo I'm wondering whether--if an instructor lets go unintentionally--whether I should just continue with the planned sequence of events with just the one instructor. Yes you should. Do your Circle of Awareness and check in with the remaining instructor wait for the "OK" or possible signals and move on with it.My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #5 June 6, 2007 QuoteQuoteSo I'm wondering whether--if an instructor lets go unintentionally--whether I should just continue with the planned sequence of events with just the one instructor. Yes you should. Do your Circle of Awareness and check in with the remaining instructor wait for the "OK" or possible signals and move on with it. Shouldn't he do whatever the prearranged plan is? IF ever this is a 'ask your instructor' question, this one is. I'm fairly sure your answer would match their's - do the COA, check in with the one present. Which for me, was yes, go on with the dive flow. Only if there was no instructor was I to deviate, and even that plan changed through the progression. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #6 June 6, 2007 Quote ...My sense has been that I should essentially start from scratch with the AFF program--so I guess my first question would be whether others might agree with that decision. It seems there are several good reasons for this. One is that I can't document most of my past history. Plus I never did have that many jumps, and what I did have was a LONG time ago, and I was trained on the static line system--meaning that there are probably things about freefall that I never learned that everyone learns now. You answered your own question: Yes, do the entire AFF course starting from scratch. Quote My second question concerns specific recent jumps. I did an AFF Cat A jump about 10 days ago at Skydance Skydiving in Davis, CA. It went fine and I moved on to AFF Cat B. The AFF Cat B jump didn't go quite as well and I need to repeat the level. One of the instructors let go of me (unintentionally) and I decided to wait until he caught up before beginning the planned events on the dive. Unfortunately, what this meant was that there was enough time for the practice pulls, COA, etc., but no time for turns before I had to lock on, wave off, and pull. So they want me to do the jump again and get the turns right. I'm not going to go against what your instructors want. There is no mention of why he had to let go. Most standard AFF courses teach "lose one JM, continue skydive...". Back up, take a deep breath, relax and enjoy your training opportunities! All your jumps count toward your A license! It's only money! Congrats for getting back into the sky with us! My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jeremy_o 0 #7 June 6, 2007 Quote Any thoughts how I should handle this? David, Why are you asking a forum this question? This is obviously a question for your instructors on what the proper procedure is for you Good luck on your future training http://planetskydive.net/ - An online aggregation of skydiver's blogs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot1 0 #8 June 6, 2007 If you were stable with one instructor, and did not continue your TLO's because you were waiting for your other instructor to redock, unfortunatly it's your mistake for not completeing your TLO's. Be safe Edwww.WestCoastWingsuits.com www.PrecisionSkydiving.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #9 June 6, 2007 Most schools will ask you to do the complete AFF program. As for your second question ... this is the first time I have heard anything about "waiting for the other instructor to re-dock" The PFF manual states "If you loose one instructor, look at the remaining instructor, then continue with the dive flow." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SivaGanesha 2 #10 June 6, 2007 QuoteAs for your second question ... this is the first time I have heard anything about "waiting for the other instructor to re-dock" What they said was to deploy if I lose BOTH instructors. If I lose ONE instructor, then they said "the other will re-dock soon so continue with the dive flow". My confusion was that part of the planned dive flow required visually checking with BOTH instructors to get their instructions (thumbs up, arch, etc). Since I couldn't do that until the absent instructor re-docked I decided to wait until he did so."It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SivaGanesha 2 #11 June 6, 2007 QuoteQuote Any thoughts how I should handle this? David, Why are you asking a forum this question? Obviously my primary point of contact for questions is the instructors who were with me in the air and/or will be with me in the air on future jumps. However, sometimes a couple of days after a jump, questions will spring to mind that I didn't think to ask during the post-jump debriefing. This is one such case. The instructors aren't available during the week. Feedback obtained on here during the week must still be validated with the instructors before I jump again on the weekend, but it helps to keep me focused and to know the right questions to ask when I return to the DZ on the weekend--so I can make best use of my time and the instructors' time at the DZ during the weekend."It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #12 June 7, 2007 Quote...What they said was to deploy if I lose BOTH instructors. If I lose ONE instructor, then they said "the other will re-dock soon so continue with the dive flow". My confusion was that part of the planned dive flow required visually checking with BOTH instructors to get their instructions (thumbs up, arch, etc). Since I couldn't do that until the absent instructor re-docked I decided to wait until he did so. Ahhhh...which is why I tell my students to simply pretend that the missing JM is there and continue on as if he gave the good old "thumbs up, hold what you got" signal....AND which is why we include practicing the missing instructor scenario on the horizontal trainer.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
