parachutist 2 #1 June 20, 2013 Many of you know this already. In fact I learned a lot from several of you who may read this, however there are new riggers out there who may not realize the necessity of checking this on every pack job, so I hope this can help somewhere. It's a PITA sometimes because the rings are tacked down, limiting your view. But it's important to look at both sides of the soft link. That's the only way to be sure it's assembled correctly. Here are some pics of a reserve riser from a rig that showed up in my loft recently. The Before and After pics look very similar when only looking at one side of the ring. The ring needed to be pulled out and flipped over to see it was assembled wrong. Before [inline soft_links_DV_before_1.jpg] After [inline soft_links_DV_after_1.jpg] Before [inline soft_links_DV_before_2.jpg] After [inline soft_links_DV_after_2b.jpg] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
irishrigger 32 #2 June 20, 2013 that is a Very nice catch Sir!! that deserves a big ATTA BOY! I found the same problem with PD slinks one time.at least these where tacked down and had a chance of holding together. when i pulled on the slinks i found the rear lines released, meaning if it was deployed in the rair, the lines would have seperated.rodger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pchapman 279 #3 June 20, 2013 Nice catch! One has to look for that double bump that shows that the slink went through the loop of the other end, rather than just being looped around the tab or ring. Top: bad Bottom: good [inline slink.jpg] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #4 June 21, 2013 Anther debate about whether the Parachutes de France method is inferior to the Performance Designs method ... PD's lark's head knot is is less likely to release pre-maturely. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RMURRAY 1 #5 June 21, 2013 my opinion it is not a design flaw...whoever did that should quit being a rigger. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skydivesg 7 #6 June 21, 2013 Are there any repercussions to a rigger like that? Besides never using him again? Be the canopy pilot you want that other guy to be. .Be the canopy pilot you want that other guy to be. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,373 #7 June 21, 2013 Hi murray, Quotemy opinion it is not a design flaw I agree completely. What's next, leave a temp pin in a reserve & call it a design flaw? The 'flaw' is with whoever did it improperly. JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #8 June 21, 2013 riggerrobAnther debate about whether the Parachutes de France method is inferior to the Performance Designs method ... PD's lark's head knot is is less likely to release pre-maturely.the PdF is through the ring and around. It is also a larkshead. The one showed is just around. Which is wrong.scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fcajump 164 #9 June 21, 2013 parachutist It's a PITA sometimes because the rings are tacked down, limiting your view. But it's important to look at both sides of the soft link. That's the only way to be sure it's assembled correctly. Yep, PITA. But if it's not my work, it gets untacked and checked. And the only way I know it was my work is if I was the last to AIR the rig. Otherwise it gets checked. This is the type of thing that lead me to give a discount for rigs that return with my seal still intact. GREAT catch. Better than a problem with YOUR seal on it, even if you didn't do it. JWAlways remember that some clouds are harder than others... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #10 June 22, 2013 Did Parachutes de France change their design? The first few PdF soft links - that I assembled - had a gap too small for lark's head knot. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #11 June 22, 2013 Kudos on the catch. Did you let the previous rigger know about it?My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
parachutist 2 #12 June 22, 2013 popsjumperKudos on the catch. Did you let the previous rigger know about it? Thanks. No, usually when I want to call a rigger to ask something or say something, it's near impossible to figure out whoever it is on the data card and locate that person. That's one of the reasons I put up this post... I figured I could get that message to some people at least. Location listed on the data card didn't give me a good place to start (three characters), the name was not very readable, and it was a far away state where I don't know anyone. There are 16 pack jobs shown on the data card, by two riggers. I don't know if it was like this since first assembly, or if the other rigger maybe took it apart and washed it or something, then reassembled it this way. It's frustrating Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deyan 36 #13 June 22, 2013 Quote the PdF is through the ring and around. It is also a larkshead. Nope, it's not The latest batch of PdF soft links came with this instruction."My belief is that once the doctor whacks you on the butt, all guarantees are off" Jerry Baumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #14 June 22, 2013 riggerrobDid Parachutes de France change their design? The first few PdF soft links - that I assembled - had a gap too small for lark's head knot.I can show you how I saw them assembled when you come over to Switz. it wasn't through the gap but through the ring itself. As posted by Deyan just above, this is apparently not the way the manufacturer says it should be. Never got to assemble any myself though.scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 2,216 #15 June 22, 2013 Those instructions show a "centering lug" on the riser that would keep the ring in place. Obviously those links using those instructions are not compatible with regular risers. I assume they only work with the Pdf risers that must match those instructions. Non? Also has a large warning at the bottom to use only genuine parts. I wouldn't use those on my rig. I'm with Rob, soft links need a lark's head knot to secure them with regular risers.Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hajnalka 0 #16 June 23, 2013 Quote This is the type of thing that lead me to give a discount for rigs that return with my seal still intact. Best idea I've seen in a long time, I may adopt this. Less work for me if things are set up like I want (bumpers tacked, etc.) Love it. -D Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deyan 36 #17 June 23, 2013 Quote I'm with Rob, soft links need a lark's head knot to secure them with regular risers. If you have ever tried to undo PdF soft links, you will know that accidental release it's not possible. Not to mention that they are designed to work without lark's knot, so the rigger has one less chance to fuck up! And as you can see from this thread... riggers DO fuck up! I wouldn't use them on my canopy either because of few other reasons, but accidental release is not one of them! But let's not hijack the thread.The thread is about the great job the OP did by spotting those misrouted reserve soft links "My belief is that once the doctor whacks you on the butt, all guarantees are off" Jerry Baumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 2,216 #18 June 23, 2013 QuoteBut let's not hijack the thread.The thread is about the great job the OP did by spotting those misrouted reserve soft links True dat. I especially appreciate the hint about looking for the "double bumps". It's simple, but I never thought of it that way.Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
erdnarob 1 #19 June 23, 2013 If my memory is good, Dave DeWolf, a master rigger and rigger instructor from Pennsylvania was asking 60$ for a reserve repack and 160$ for a reserve still not popped to be repacked. His idea was to make pressure on the owner to pull his reserve ripcord and that way, feeling what was the actual pull force to extract the ripcord. You can ask the reserve owner to do that in front of you, he will know the pull force and you will see how high the pilot chute is jumping. Having a reserve which is not popped to repack is not a good idea. The reserve owner has to train himself for a possible cut away, not the rigger.Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dpreguy 14 #20 June 23, 2013 If I am seeing the Parachute De France instructions correctly?- they just loop the Spectra eye over the ring? And that's it? I have never seen a P De France soft link with ring, but I would task/fail any rigging student that did that with Aerodyne metal links. Aerodyne links are a good product, and hold just fine. Their instructions include inserting the loop into the "crotch" and then going around the metal ring. Just like you do with PD slinks. Can't believe Parachutes De France approves of the instructions I saw. All the loop has to do is get sideways and the loop slips right off the metal ring. Unless I didn't interpret/read the instruction diagrams right. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hajnalka 0 #21 June 23, 2013 I usually do invite the rig owner put the rig on and practice EP's, especially if they have low jump #s and/or are uncurrent, etc. I just like the idea of a 'discount' on a rig I regularly maintain anyway, because some of these nasty surprises cause me more time and effort. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,373 #22 June 23, 2013 Hi Walt, QuoteIf I am seeing the Parachute De France instructions correctly? That's how I see it. Aerodyne, Precision & DINX all have a ring and go through the 'crotch' first; ala Slinks. JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deyan 36 #23 June 23, 2013 QuoteIf I am seeing the Parachute De France instructions correctly?- they just loop the Spectra eye over the ring? And that's it? Yes! That's the way it should be. QuoteCan't believe Parachutes De France approves of the instructions I saw. All the loop has to do is get sideways and the loop slips right off the metal ring. When you assemble/disassemble PdF soft links once, you'll see that this is impossible to happen by itself. The loop is too tight and you really have to force it over the ring. Not only that, but the soft link is short enough so the ring can't move freely."My belief is that once the doctor whacks you on the butt, all guarantees are off" Jerry Baumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dpreguy 14 #24 June 24, 2013 As I am sure you know, PD Slinks do not have a metal ring. After going thru the "crotch" the loop is forced over a "sewn-folded over blocking thing", thus creating a kind of a lark's head. All of the metal ring soft links I have seen have also required the loop to be inserted into the "crotch" and then over the ring, also creating a kind of lark's head. If a person can force the loop over the ring by pushing only with fingers, it can just as handily be pulled off the ring if the ring gets sideways. Seems like the P DeFrance method relies mostly on hand tacking to hold things in place, and gambling on the metal ring never going sideways. Not acceptable with me, and apparently not acceptable with all the other metal ring soft link manufacturers I am aware of, who also require the "thru the crotch" step before going over the ring. It probably not an issue with me, as it is not likely I will ever see one of these; as I have never had a Parachutes De France rig come through my loft. If one did, I'd refuse it if the main or reserve was attached with the instructions I saw. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deyan 36 #25 June 24, 2013 Quote It probably not an issue with me, as it is not likely I will ever see one of these; as I have never had a Parachutes De France rig come through my loft. If one did, I'd refuse it if the main or reserve was attached with the instructions I saw PdF soft links can be used only on type 17 risers on a main with micro lines. They can't be used on reserves. One, because they are not certified and two, because they are really short. You won't be able to route them around type 7,8 or 13 risers. Send me your postal address on PM and I'll send you an old soft link to play with "My belief is that once the doctor whacks you on the butt, all guarantees are off" Jerry Baumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
