RkyMtnHigh 0 #1 May 26, 2007 Nitpick all day about safety and who did what, when and how and who's a skygod and who's safety conscious, place new USPA rules or not......but bottomline, in my opinion, in the past 3+ years of me being in this sport...so much could've been avoided with a change in ATTITUDE! When that changes I think the rest will change... So WHEN will that happen? _________________________________________ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NewGuy2005 53 #2 May 26, 2007 Please elaborate. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #3 May 26, 2007 So WHEN will that happen? Quote When it becomes more painful not to.... ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RkyMtnHigh 0 #4 May 26, 2007 Quote So WHEN will that happen? Quote When it becomes more painful not to.... I suppose you're correct...unfortunate as well that it comes to that. Haven't we lost enough already? Haven't we had enough pain to make attitude adjustments? _________________________________________ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratostar 5 #5 May 26, 2007 Post: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So WHEN will that happen? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- When it becomes more painful not to.... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I suppose you're correct...unfortunate as well that it comes to that. Haven't we lost enough already? Haven't we had enough pain to make attitude adjustments? Quote Well I hate to quote the wise Mr. Keenan again today but I think what he said rings true here as well. ***Being in the sport for some time allows one the length of vision to see the trends and patterns that cannot be seen from a short view. My point is, in my short view from a long time is, there have always been the ones that (fill in blank) attitude around, but today there are more of um, their louder and faster today and accidents are more spectacular cuz everything is faster and smaller and we do stupid moves close to the ground as never before and every body digs it, kind of like a airshow every day of the week and we have a ton of airshow pilots around looking for a crowd to oooh and ahhhh. But sooner or later people (general public) will get their fill of the mainstream Extream crap and it will fade again back to less people dig'n it and they'll move on, so you'll see less flash in the pans as we do now, till the next cycle come around again and it will be the early 90 all over again, only by then your really going to have to have some real money for lift tickets.you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 5 #6 May 27, 2007 Quote Nitpick all day about safety and who did what, when and how and who's a skygod and who's safety conscious, place new USPA rules or not......but bottomline, in my opinion, in the past 3+ years of me being in this sport...so much could've been avoided with a change in ATTITUDE! When that changes I think the rest will change...So WHEN will that happen? Safety is NO accident. It's an attitude. It really is.Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tbrown 26 #7 May 27, 2007 Quote Nitpick all day about safety and who did what, when and how and who's a skygod and who's safety conscious, place new USPA rules or not......but bottomline, in my opinion, in the past 3+ years of me being in this sport...so much could've been avoided with a change in ATTITUDE! When that changes I think the rest will change...So WHEN will that happen? I was gonna be a smartass and ask if you hadn't seen the memo about next Tuesday. But I don't know if the general attitude is ever going to change. We are basically a jock culture, with a lot of ego wrapped up in a lot more adrenaline. I mean the bottom line premise of the sport is we have fun doing something that 99% of the population thinks is utterly nuts in the first place. We also tend to have strongly anti-authoritarian streaks, not always in the wisest ways either. Safety attitudes come and go. Somebody hooks in, there's a collision, somebody bounces because they set their AAD at a different location & field elevation, there's a BIG emphasis for a month or two. Then complacency sets back in. "Nobody's died around here in a while, so lighten up", if not "What, are you some kind of Safety Nazi ?!". I'm not defending any of that, just saying it's human nature. You are unfortunately asking when human nature will change and the answer to that is never. This is just part of the equation we each have to consider in our personal decision to play in this sport. Sometimes it tips the equation into "time to hang it up" - I've been there and done that too. For now I'm back in the game and want to keep playing. But anything could change that at any time. I've never seen a fatality yet where somebody else didn't quit. No easy answer, just the one you arrive at for yourself. Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob.dino 1 #8 May 28, 2007 Quote So WHEN will that happen? When you change human nature. Or when the kind of people that currently skydive do something else instead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #9 May 28, 2007 Quote Quote Nitpick all day about safety and who did what, when and how and who's a skygod and who's safety conscious, place new USPA rules or not......but bottomline, in my opinion, in the past 3+ years of me being in this sport...so much could've been avoided with a change in ATTITUDE! When that changes I think the rest will change...So WHEN will that happen? Safety is NO accident. It's an attitude. It really is. I just had to respond to this as you are right on the money. Beside my hobby, (which I assume is yours too) the industry I work in can be fatal should you make a mistake. The company I work for just started a new safety program that I think is the best I have ever seen (I have been in this industry for 28 years) and it not onlly fits the industry but everyday life. It fits our sport too. First, nearly all acidents are caused when we are in one of these four states Rushing Frustation Fatigue Complancency They are the cause of the four main critical errors. Eyes not on task Mind not on task Line-of-fire Balance/traction/grip I have my opinions and I will not elaborate here but I ask, which combinations of the states and errors do you think takes more of our friends? (please excuse, me but this is not aimed at the one I reply to. It just seemed the right place to do it) This program challenges us all to recognise, through training and thought, the state we are in. This recognition will help us save our own health or lives. Safety is an attutude!! Recognition of the attitude you are in can save your life. Land safely, please, because anyone of you are, or could be my friend someday. Blue skies and safe swoops Marc"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Malta_Dog 0 #10 May 29, 2007 Quote ... Line-of-fire Balance/traction/grip ... Very interesting post. Can you explain those concepts or are they related to your work only? Thanks All your dropzone are belong to us!!!!111! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #11 May 29, 2007 QuoteQuote ... Line-of-fire Balance/traction/grip ... Very interesting post. Can you explain those concepts or are they related to your work only? Thanks They relate into everyday life and all we do. The whole key to this program is training someone to recognize when they are in one of the 4 states (of mind) It has been proven that if you can see the state you are more likely to avoid any of the critical errors. I feel the complacency is what is taking our friends from us in skydiving. Complacency = Hurrying through a pack to make the next load so a gear check is not done, I have done this a 100 times, that closing loop will last one more jump, I think I can handle that 8 way (with only 15 jumps , just an example), I know I can fly and land that less than 100 sq ft canopy. This mental state lets you talk yourself into putting your self in the "line of fire". In this sport I feel one must evaluate every decision for the increase or decrease in the associated risk. The risk level is directly related to your currency, skills and experience, (I know I am preaching to the choir) If one does not make that evaluation, they are being complacent and therefore will not see, or not acknowledge a risk (that really does exist). I hope this helps and please, let me know if you have any questions."America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #12 May 30, 2007 Judging by the title ... is this thread about my ex-wife???????? evil laughter!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #13 May 30, 2007 There are two ways to improve someone else's performance. Harsh nagging or loving suggestions. The Canadian Armed Forces and my ex-wife liked the first method. Funny! I want nothing more to do with either of them. Loving suggestion is a far more subtle, difficult technique to learn. Fifty years into this life, I am studying buddhist teachings and trying to re-wire my brain to learn how to suggest better ways to skydive in a loving manner. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #14 May 30, 2007 Quote There are two ways to improve someone else's performance. Harsh nagging or loving suggestions. The Canadian Armed Forces and my ex-wife liked the first method. . I wonder if she is related to my ex-wife.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #15 May 30, 2007 Quote [...I wonder if she is related to my ex-wife. We all three may have married: a) sisters b) the same woman Since I'm the young pup of this group...why the hell didn't you guys warn me??? My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
