nubain1 0 #1 August 17, 2002 Just a quick question for the skydivers of CO.Where is thebest DZ to go to for AFF.I just moved here yesterday and am wanting to get my Aff done.I went to Skydive the Rockies today and was not ipressed at all.It looked like the planes were about to fall apart.and there was no one there to help me.I stay in Pueblo.The distance to a good DZs no problem.I was driving fro myrtle beach to Raeford,(about a 3hr drive) just for tandems so a little drive for AFF is no big deal.please help. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Viking 0 #2 August 17, 2002 I have heard the Mile Hi is nothing but a tandem factory so if your looking to get your A and then fun jump don't look there. But what do i know i live in California!I swear you must have footprints on the back of your helmet - chicagoskydiver My God has a bigger dick than your god -George Carlin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dmddave 0 #3 August 17, 2002 Front Range Skydivers in is a great place to learn. It's in Calhan near Colorado Springs. Check it out. They have something for everybody. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WFFC 1 #4 August 17, 2002 QuoteWhere is thebest DZ to go to for AFF? MileHi, Denver Skydivers or Calhan are all good. Each has their own 'personality' so find the one that fits best for you. Mile Hi's reputation as a tandem factory is a bit overrated at times. Besides, it's the students that will be paying for the TwOtter when the DZO finds the right deal. Denver Skydivers has 2 new DZO's who have a better idea on who to run a DZ than the prior owners. Calhan's only downfall is that if you land off, you might end up picking cactus needles out of your body. Bluez~~~ Michael Webmaster Michael@Freefall.com----- ~~~Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skycat 0 #5 August 17, 2002 QuoteSkydive the Rockies. It looked like the planes were about to fall apart Did you go to the right DZ? there are 2 on that airport. One is a "bandit" DZ and definately has a well lets just say interesting plane. The other one, Skydive the Rockies, you need call ahead during the week to make sure they are out there. I can honestly say they actually do their maintenance on both their planes, and both 206s are in very nice condition. The one with the cargo door is even getting this huge step so you can launch 4-way chunks like out of an otter or caravan. So far I have seen that everyone out there has been extremely helpful and nice. Let's see Mile-Hi (North of Denver) Tandem factory, you won't have any problem getting on loads as a student, but you are pretty much screwed once you are off student status. It's also hard to get people to jump with you, ofcourse the fact that it is hard to get on a load kind of makes the problem worse. Denver Skydivers (NorthEast of Denver) Very laid back DZ, I've only been out there once and it was on an off weekend. It caters more to fun jumpers than students or from what I've heard that is how it used to be. I don't think they have a lot of students out there since there weren't any on either of the loads I was on. Front Range Skydivers (Calhan) - Hate the landing area, there is only one flat spot where the pea pit is. Lots of cactuses and brush, also the DZ with the highest elevation in the country if I'm correct. The weekend I was out there I didn't see any students. I have to advise though that if you just moved here to wait a few weeks before skydiving, to allow yourself to aclimate. NONE of the DZ have O2 that is easy to get to on the plane, they have it, but it is hard to get to. I moved here from Houston a few months ago and could at most do 1 jump a day for a few weeks cause I was getting hypoxic. Those were just fun jumps, AFF jumps are much more stressful.Fly it like you stole it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WFFC 1 #6 August 17, 2002 QuoteNONE of the DZ have O2 that is easy to get to on the plane, they have it, but it is hard to get to. I believe all the DZ's have O2 in the plane. If you need it, all you have to do is ask. If you know you're going to need it, all it would take is "Hey, I'm going to need O2 so do you mind if I sit by it?" If you don't ask, it will definately be a bit harder to get to.----- ~~~Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skycat 0 #7 August 17, 2002 Ummm....have you ever needed it? Since I doubt the answer is yes, how would you know how easy it is and do you really think they are going to let you sit up in the front of the King Air and make you climb over Tandems to get out 1st. Yes I had asked for it the 1st few weekends I was out at Mile-hi after the huge hassle it seemed to be I quit and just quit jumping until I was acclimated. Also, the only O2 on the plane is the stuff the pilot is using he usually takes it at about 9k and AFF and Tandems have priority over it.Fly it like you stole it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #8 August 17, 2002 Pssst... The Purple tailed Otter from San Marcos was for sale on Rec. only a few months ago...Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WFFC 1 #9 August 17, 2002 QuotePssst... The Purple tailed Otter from San Marcos was for sale on Rec. only a few months ago... He's looking at that one as well as others.----- ~~~Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jessica 0 #10 August 17, 2002 QuotePssst... The Purple tailed Otter from San Marcos was for sale on Rec. only a few months ago... Hey, quit helping to sell my plane. Skydiving is for cool people only Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #11 August 17, 2002 Psst... Fayard Enterprises has a Casa for sale too Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skycat 0 #12 August 17, 2002 *drool* CASA *drool*Fly it like you stole it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumptandem 0 #13 August 19, 2002 Clint, This is in response to you posting on dropzone.com about our operation Skydive The Rockies! I think that you must be mistaken about the dropzone that you visited. Our maintenance is impeccable and the planes definitely aren't "falling apart". We have sufficient staff to greet all of the people who arrive at our facility and someone would have definitely helped you. In spite of the huge amount of business that we had we probably would have been able to fit you into the schedule and gotten you in the air! (was the place that you went to busy?) I think you should know that there are two operations on the Fremont County Airport. One is NOT a USPA group member dropzone. We are a USPA group member and are extremely safe. We specialize in student operations and most of our instructors are either CURRENT or FORMER US Air Force Parachute instructors. One is even a former Army Golden Knight team member.... We are truely blessed with some of the best instructors on the planet. I will be happy to show you our operation and then if you really think that we are that big of a safety risk or unwilling to help you I'll accept the derogatory comments that you posted. Otherwise you should at least retract the statements that you made. Remember, there are two skydive operations on the airport. High Sky Adventures and Skydive The Rockies! We (Skydive The Rockies!) are located PAST the first operation and are completely separate from them! Check out www.skydivetherockies.com for more information (including detailed directions on how to get there). Bob Pierotti Owner/Operator Skydive The Rockies! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wingnut 0 #14 August 19, 2002 i myself recently moved to colorado, colorado springs to be specific...i've only been to front range sydivers and i liked the place, yeah, the cactus suck but just don't slide in you landing...lol....they provide a pair of twezers in the packing area for slid in landings........since i had back surgery a while ago i won't be jumping at any of the other dz's but i'll proby be out to watch...definatly have to go up to denver to chill with skykat....and her cool dog...... ______________________________________ "i have no reader's digest version" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christoofar 0 #15 August 19, 2002 QuoteQuotePssst... The Purple tailed Otter from San Marcos was for sale on Rec. only a few months ago... Hey, quit helping to sell my plane. I *know* the nerve of these people trying to buy the best Otter! I will miss that plane if/when it goes bye bye. And we just put awesome purple carpet in it, too. I guess I should get out more and actually try other aircraft instead of waiting the whole year for WFFC, shouldn't I? ____________________________________________________________ I'm RICK JAMES! Fo shizzle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deleted 0 #16 August 19, 2002 QuoteI think you should know that there are two operations on the Fremont County Airport. One is NOT a USPA group member dropzone. We are a USPA group member and are extremely safe. Ahhh, the Group Membership program. You know as well as the next (And probably better than most) that the fact you pay the USPA a fee to be called a "Group Member" makes you no more or less safe than any other Drop Zone. All you get by being a Group Member is: 1. You get your DZ listed in Parachutist and on the USPA website. 2. You agree to abide by the BSRs. (Most, if not all do anyway, you just signed a piece of paper stating the fact.) 3. You agree to REQUIRE USPA membership of all non students/tandems, and encourage it of the the rest. Pray tell, how does this make you safer? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christoofar 0 #17 August 20, 2002 QuotePray tell, how does this make you safer? Well said. Safety != voluminous amounts of paper pushing. Ask anyone who works in engineering and has to submit to ISO9000. ____________________________________________________________ I'm RICK JAMES! Fo shizzle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christoofar 0 #18 August 20, 2002 Perhaps the best redeeming quality about tandem factories is that they won't get that much coverage in Parachutist, or get much free media coverage; aside from the occasional celebrity that makes the story worthy for news. Even so, when that *DOES* happen, it's all about the student, and maybe 2 seconds the DZ's name might get mentioned. A factory is a factory, when you've seen one you've seen 'em all. Anyone been to any great boogies at Vegas? We all know the bills gotta get paid. We are customers as well and we spend much more money on this sport than a one-jump wonder will ever shell out. I shudder to think how much money I've spent at my home DZ. As a bonus for the DZ, we even come out to jump when it gets cold and the tandems drop off! Many of us also steer tandem business towards the dropzone and have got our friends and relatives to jump. Thinking about the other contributors to our sport, I'm certain PIA wouldn't want to see experienced jumpers muscled out. DZOs work their tandem equipment and don't change it out like yesterdays fashion like experienced jumpers do. ____________________________________________________________ I'm RICK JAMES! Fo shizzle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #19 August 20, 2002 Think about this... for every load of all experienced it costs the plane operator about 12-14 plus fuel costs. So for a full load on a twin otter you are looking at max of 160 profit minus fuel costs. A single student makes 75 profit and you don't have to listen to the jumpers complain about the small landing area, or they want a pond, or got that load to forever to climb.. In many ways I don't envy being a DZO just because we as jumpers can be assholes all the time...Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WFFC 1 #20 August 20, 2002 Good point. Now keep in mind the cascading effect. More student business means more profit which in turn can make more funds for a larger loan payment available. I'm not going to say these numbers are accurate or near correct so if someone knows, please post some realistic numbers. A King Air will run a DZ @ 250,000$ to buy A Super TwOtter will run a DZ @ 800,000$ to buy So, over the long haul, the student business does positively affect the experienced jumper business by making funds available for a bigger plane. So, is it wrong for a business to want to increase their income to benefit the loyal customers in the long haul? (i.e. you and me?) I'd rather jump an Otter over a King Air (unless it's Mike's). Bluez~~~ Michael Webmaster Michael@Freefall.com----- ~~~Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christoofar 0 #21 August 20, 2002 QuoteThink about this... for every load of all experienced it costs the plane operator about 12-14 plus fuel costs. So for a full load on a twin otter you are looking at max of 160 profit minus fuel costs. A single student makes 75 profit and you don't have to listen to the jumpers complain about the small landing area, or they want a pond, or got that load to forever to climb.. In many ways I don't envy being a DZO just because we as jumpers can be assholes all the time... That, of course, is very true. This subject has come up LOTS of times in the past here, and I'm neither for nor against tandem factories, they are fine. I prefer to avoid them like the plague instead of wasting my precious time and it's helpful when someone identifies tandem factories** here so I know to steer clear, as no DZO would ever want to openly admit they are solely interested in your wallet. How big and effectual would USPA's "voice" and representation be if all it had were the handful of DZOs out there, JM staff, and all those zillions of tandem students required to register to boost membership numbers? Not a lot. You could have all the tandem students be USPA members and pay for that registration fee, which they will.... once. I don't think a small time tandem factory will ever grow into a DeLand. Would be interesting to see one try. Flame away. **Item of interest: getting bumped off a load for tandems doesn't constitute a tandem factory. A tandem-factory is when all you can ever get is a two-way for months on end and there are more JMs than there are fun jumpers. There are only really a few DZs like this. ____________________________________________________________ I'm RICK JAMES! Fo shizzle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christoofar 0 #22 August 20, 2002 Oh man... just for kicks I had to go see if the DZ we all "know and love" has anything greeting the visiting experienced jumper on their site. I was greeted with a nasty looking turqouise background and in nice flaming red letters: BECAUSE OF PAST PROBLEMS WITH "FUN JUMPERS" BREAKING OUR RULES; WILL NO LONGER ACCEPT FUN JUMPERS WHO HAVE NOT GRADUATED FROM OUR STUDENT PROGRAM. I don't need to post the URL, you all know where it is already. So I guess 's "experienced" jumpers won't ever do a hook turn at their place, huh? ____________________________________________________________ I'm RICK JAMES! Fo shizzle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #23 August 20, 2002 Ok.. the SLV thing is old...if you want to jump in Vegas Jean is a good place to go if you have your own rig.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skycat 0 #24 August 21, 2002 QuotePray tell, how does this make you safer? Oh.....you have to see that DZ though. Have you all seen the movie Fandango? If you haven't get your ass to the movie rental place and watch it. Anyway, you know the DZ in Fandango, well that "Bandit" DZ makes the one in fandango look like the top of the line instructional facility. Hehehe...I think the gear they are using in the movie is newer than the stuff they are putting students out on. I mean it's bad when Derek has never seen those kind of rigs before. Oh and you should see the plane, it's a piper cherokee, with the lugage compartment cut open so they could have a bigger door. *YIKES* So in this case I would say they aren't the safest place, I mean heck when the chief instructor only has 75 jumps, I'd be worried. Derek and I walked over there to check the place out we were told there are no rules, we can do anything we want to. There were no waivers to sign and I doubt I would have had to show them my repack card, but then again if the pilot was caught flying jumpers he has a bigger problem on his hands since he only has his private.Fly it like you stole it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
prepheckt 0 #25 August 21, 2002 I jump at Calhan, we'd be glad to have you...watch out for the cactus....it sucks. It took me 2 hours to pick it out of my clothes, still finding some. PM me if you go out that way. blue ones."Dancing Argentine Tango is like doing calculus with your feet." -9 toes Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
