Scoby 0 #52 August 19, 2002 QuoteBOOBIES I second that! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
prepheckt 0 #53 August 19, 2002 QuoteQuoteBOOBIES I second that! Motion carried!!!!"Dancing Argentine Tango is like doing calculus with your feet." -9 toes Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SBS 0 #54 August 19, 2002 I don't see anything in there about repressing the prior represser to get back at them or to overturn a history of racism. ----------------- That statement "getting back at them" is what this is all about...it's not a fight for equality, it is a fight to get some sort of feeling of justice being served for the mistakes of people who lived hundreds of years ago. This isn't something that is limited to the United States... Excuse my racial slurs, but I want to list examples... Here we have, for example, the word Nigger for blacks, Spic for Mexicans, and on and on... In Canada, they have the word "Newfy" (SP?) for people from NewFoundland... In Mexico, they have Gringo In Costa Rica, they have "Nica" for the people from Nicaragua In France, they look down upon people from the middle east, who immigrate to the south (don't know the word for them). EVERYPLACE has racism in one form or another, or some sort of prejudice based on sex (look back at the middle east again), age, skin color, language, RELIGION, etc. Someone will find something to bitch about, it's our nature, unfortunately. The way to solve it is not to punish those who have not perpetrated past crimes (as would be the case if I had to pay out a dime to "make up" for slavery, considering that my ancestors immigrated from Europe in the early part of the last century), but the ones that allow the racism of the past to continue today. I like what others have pointed out...even if money would make it better, who do we collect the money from??? All the white people, whether they had anything to do with slavery or not??? Is that not racist??? My question is, when was the last time that you heard someone, unprovoked, complain about there being an "all black entertainment channel", or an "all black college fund", or an "all black parade", etc.? Why is it when something bad happens to a black man, it is generally considered racism? ex...Columbine, there was one black kid killed, a number of white ones, and the dad said that he thought that his son being killed was racially motivated. Tennis star Venus Williams and another player, Irena Spirlea (SP?), bump eachother as they are crossing from one side of the court to the other...Richard Williams comes out screaming that it was "racially motivated". The stories go on...some are more ridiculous than the last one, and some are not. Point is, racism does exist...the majority can keep it alive, but the minority can as well...it will never die if the minority does not allow it to. -S_____________ I'm not conceited...I'm just realistic about my awesomeness... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KATO33 0 #55 August 20, 2002 QuoteThat statement "getting back at them" is what this is all about...it's not a fight for equality, it is a fight to get some sort of feeling of justice being served for the mistakes of people who lived hundreds of years ago. Hell JusticeIsn't that what we all want and are willing to fight for. Once again I must reiterate The only reason African Americans bring up the issue of slavery (and his big brother Racism) is because it still affects our lives today! Can anyone even remotely consider that to be possible? Blue Skies Black Death Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,070 #56 August 20, 2002 >Once again I must reiterate The only reason African Americans >bring up the issue of slavery (and his big brother Racism) is because > it still affects our lives today! How does slavery affect the lives of african americans today, beyond the extent that they choose to talk about it? And while slavery and racism are somewhat related here, they are not in much of the world. Slaves (indentured servants, impressed seamen) in most parts of the world were not black; today there are plenty of countries where black people are vanishingly scarce yet there's plenty of racism. There is little that relates the two, outside the relation that _we_ choose to make between them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #57 August 20, 2002 Quotetoday there are plenty of countries where black people are vanishingly scarce yet there's plenty of racism. That is an interesting point. In a book I had to read for school "The New Terrorism: Fanatacism and the Arms of Mass Destruction" -Walter Laquer it talks about Skinhead violence in Germany. Curiously enough, the highest reported incidents were in areas that had the lowest populations of minorities. Of course, this violence is usually aimed at people of Middle Eastern ethnicity..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #58 August 20, 2002 I would be really surprised if people REALLY thought that slavery did not affect lives of African Americans today. It's quite clear that racism exists, and that many people are not allowed equal opportunities because of racism. I can also argue that as a woman I am in a similar situation. In the medical profession it is profoundly obvious. I recognize that inequities exist, and I do not like them. I also realize that the history of women in this country has shown that through a continued struggle, we are approaching acceptance in most arenas today as we have shown ourselves to be extremely competent as people...NOT because we demanded retribution, but because we have proven and are proving ourselves to be competent. I do not believe in my lifetime that the same opportunities will exist for me that exist for my male counterparts, and while I am accepting of that (as I recognize the reality in it) I will continue to work especially hard to prove my value in the work I have chosen and in other areas of my life. In my child's lifetime, I expect those inequities to be less significant....and so on. No amount of retribution can change the past. For many people it has been unfair. But working towards resolution through merit today goes a lot further than demanding that people today pay for other people's actions 100 or 200 years ago....or more. Expecting retribution, imho, only deepens the wedge that is driven between us. Though I do understand very well the issues of racism, sexism, and most other -isms, it makes me downright angry for someone to feel entitled to what I have earned. And while what my brother has earned may have been at my expense, I prefer the satisfaction I have in earning my OWN to the shame I would feel in taking what he has earned. Peas~ Lindsey-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IronMike 0 #59 August 20, 2002 Give me ONE example (specific and tangible) of how slavery affects your life today. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zennie 0 #60 August 20, 2002 QuoteThe only reason African Americans bring up the issue of slavery (and his big brother Racism) is because it still affects our lives today! Can anyone even remotely consider that to be possible? Absolutely. To take a person as a slave is to deny that person's humanity. So to a certain extent, it was ingrained in the slaveholder's minds that African Americans were subhuman. The same thing happened with the Jews in Nazi Germany. So I'm sure the ripple effects of that mode of thinking still exist in our society today. Minorities are somehow less "human" than Caucasians. This leads to discrimination. So yes I definitely understand. But the crux of the problem isn't slavery. It's xenophobia in all forms. Racial injustices have been perpetrated upon African Americans, Latinos, Asians, heck even Caucasians (remember the poor guy who was dragged out of his truck and beaten nearly to death by the angry mob during the LA riots?). I don't think it's constructive to dwell on the past. Sure it explains why things are the way they are, but doing things with an eye toward what happened yesterday doesn't address today's problem. It still remains. What needs to be addressed is what's going on today. Until people learn to view others simply as other people, not a member of some "group" you'll continue to have an "us" and "them" mentality that just perpetuates human suffering. The best reparation is to end "ism" in all forms. Unfortunately you can't legislate that. People resent being told what to do. You can't buy that. Money doesn't buy happiness. Trust me on that one... I stand to get a fair chunk of change from my property division, but do you think that's going to end my suffering? People have to feel this in their hearts and act on it. Unfortunately, I don't have a whole lot of faith in human nature these days. You know what the real minority in society is? The person who has strength of conviction. The person who doesn't lie. The person who keeps their promises. The person who is more concerned with the wellbeing of everyone as a collective rather than advancing their own personal agenda. The person who is willing to do the right thing... even if it means doing something which isn't in your best interest. Those people seem to be getting rarer and rarer as time goes on. And no I don't profess myself to be perfect. But I do believe the qualities that I listed are important to making the world a better place. - Z "Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IronMike 0 #61 August 20, 2002 Zennie is my new GOD!!!!! You are wise beyond your years, my friend. My goal is to be as eloquent as you............... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zennie 0 #62 August 20, 2002 Hey man, I just calls 'em as I sees 'em. Sometimes I see 'em right. Other times I need glasses. - Z "Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SBS 0 #63 August 20, 2002 Hell JusticeIsn't that what we all want and are willing to fight for. --------------- Reread my statement in context, and you may understand...of course we are all fighting for justice, but in today's society. A murderer getting put on trial and convicted...that's justice. Making his children, grandchildren, and on, pay for his mistake should not be considered any form of justice, and that is what we are addressing here. The BEST thing that we can do at this point is to cut our losses and move on...you owe me for this and you owe me for that, is never going to accomplish anything. There are enough people on each side of this, white and black, that think LF is on crack. The likelyhood of this bill passing is not in the high percentile, from what I know, but what it is doing is stirring the pot. Moreso than anything else, that seems to be what LF is good at, and he is doing a hell of a job this time. We're not talking about a peaceful, loving man...he wants revolution, and he is doing everything he can to stir that up. I say again, "why can't we all just get along?" -S_____________ I'm not conceited...I'm just realistic about my awesomeness... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #64 August 20, 2002 QuoteThe slave trading nations, Britain in particular supported the formation of the Confederacy thus protecting a very lucrative trade. The confederacy was encouraged to expand (to increase trade for the slave traders) and as an aside sow dissent in the "colonists" who had so recently kicked the rightful government out of America and gone all independent - some parts of this new country had even stopped buying slaves!! Britain had outlawed slavery thoroughout the Empire and declared war on slave traders in the early 19th century (the Wilberforce Acts). Support for the Confederacy had nothing to do with slavery. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deuce 1 #65 August 20, 2002 I have already paid. I've worked in Government for 15 years. From my very first job, every promotion, every transfer, the employer had to justify, in writing on a government form, why I was given the job instead of a member of a targeted group. I am always more qualified than the competition. I had to work very hard to give the employer a reason to go through the hassle of hiring me instead of a targeted person. I educated myself in State college while working in order to compete at this level. This situation means that I have to have a Master's degree while my "competition" only needs a Bachelor's. This discrimination against me is to pay for the "easy" life my immigrant grandparents had, even though every member of my family arrived in this country after the end of slavery, and all of them lived in the North, as if that makes any difference. Arms are for shrugging. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #66 August 20, 2002 There are neighborhoods in my home city that I can't go into because I am white and I would probably be robbed or beaten. The other day I was walking past a corner frequented by black transvestites and a black man started yelling about he's "sick of all the faggots in drag. One of these days I'm going to bring my gun down here and shoot them all. It's the white man (as he points at me) who lets them get away with it." Three of my friends have been mugged in the past year by blacks. Another friend of mine was raped by a black man. Where are the reparations for that? Once you start finger pointing, it's easy. I'm sure we could all come up with examples of individuals from any race doing horrible things to individuals (or even a collective) of another race. I used the example of black on white crime above, but holding that entire race accountable and demanding reparations from them is by definition, racist. Stop the cycle. Punish the individuals responsible and not their entire race. If the perpetrator of the crime is dead, move on. The micks, wops, and kikes were as discriminated against, or more so than blacks of today are. By working hard as individuals and integrating themselves into society that's been almost entirely eliminated. They didn't do that by refusing to speak English, or wanting different rules, or demanding reparations. They did it by working hard and showing the block headed racists that, hey, guess what, they are equal. Bottom line is if you want to be treated equally, don't strive for separation by placing blame where it isn't deserved. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fasterfaller 0 #67 August 20, 2002 Well said phillykev . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #68 August 20, 2002 How is your rant a reply to me? There are neighborhoods in Chicago less than a mile from my workplace that you wouldn't go either, based on your bias (the south side, right by the projects). I, on the other hand, have no fear of going there since 25 years of experience has told me that 99.5% of the blacks who live there don't wish me any harm, and I can recognize the other 0.5% and just cross the street to avoid them. I have worked 25 years next to the ghetto and not once been a victim in any way. (Of course, it could just be my British accent that wards off evil) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SBS 0 #69 August 20, 2002 (Of course, it could just be my British accent that wards off evil) -------------- It could just be that they have standards...they don't hurt women, children, or those who consider Badmitton a sport. :) -S_____________ I'm not conceited...I'm just realistic about my awesomeness... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SudsyFist 0 #70 August 20, 2002 QuoteIt could just be that they have standards...they don't hurt women, children, or those who consider Badmitton a sport. hey hey hey HEY HEY! badminton IS a sport, and it KICKS ASS!!! ever try a match with low-altitude birdies at 6000 feet??? holy criznap, you don't know what yer missin'!!! steve Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #71 August 20, 2002 http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/08/17/slave.reparations.ap/index.html Oh my fucking God! Someone hand out the Tampons quick fast and in a hurry please!!! That rally is a joke!!! I'm too Damned lazy to work for a living so lets sue the government instead.. Boo hoooooo... Poor me.. I deserve this, I deserve that.. It is rightfully mine.. Baaaahh!! Humbug!!!! I am Cherokee Indian and I'm not begging for handouts.. If those lazy bastards want something they should be getting off their asses and working for it.. Not whining pissing and moaning about how hard life is.. We are not living in the "400 years ago" We are living in the "Today" Welcome to planet earth I say!! Join the damn club! And grow the _uck up!! Damnit those people piss me off.. "Those people as in ANYONE that expects a handout." Slavery sucked! Obviously.. It was sick! It ended. It is over. Now we are all slaves in one way or another. We work Jobs, pay bills, breath poluted air. Let's all cry and ask for a handout!! NOT... LOL GRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!! One of the things I LOVE about living in a free country like the USA is you can either go out and EARN paydirt.. Or you can piss and moan looking for a handout you will never get and degrade yourself.. GRRRRRR.... Damn.. Damn...Damn!!! Rhino and Segador assume the fighting position horn and blade sharpened. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SBS 0 #72 August 21, 2002 Um, Rhino, I really think it's important that you open up and make your feelings known...there's no point in holding back, we are all upset by this...you are welcome to say whatever it is that you would like to say. :) -S_____________ I'm not conceited...I'm just realistic about my awesomeness... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #73 August 21, 2002 "laughing my ass off" Yeagh, my therapist "joke" says I should be more open with my feelings.. LOL Rhino still poised, Segador lowering his blade.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #74 August 21, 2002 QuoteHow is your rant a reply to me? It wasn't, you just happened to have the last post before mine. And for the record my "bias" is based on personal experience of being threatened and called whitey. I was just trying to point out that racism goes both ways so instead of pointing fingers and placing blame (I forgot the [sarcasm] tags in my post) maybe that's what should be addressed instead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #75 August 21, 2002 QuoteAnd for the record my "bias" is based on personal experience of being threatened and called whitey. OK, I might give you the threatened part if somebody shoved a Desert Eagle in your face or something, but "called whitey"? Seriously? What kinda racist comment is that to get upset about? As a matter of fact, I can't think of a single thing anyone could possibly call me as a racial epithet that would actually make me upset -- I'd probably just laugh in their face. Really! Go ahead and call me a cracker or red-neck or whitey and see if I give a shit. What an absurd concept. To me, all it would do would show me how little the other person actually knew about me. But get upset over it? Ya gotta be kidding!quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
