Fatal incident report, question

[freebird 0]

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conclusion: The main parachute apparently opened with one steering line released and one stowed, which would cause the parachute to turn or spin. The stowed steering line was easily released several times during testing on the ground by a master rigger. Quickly pulling down on both steering lines at the same time may have corrected the problem and eliminated trying to guess which steering line to release.
If for some reason the steering line could not have been released, the better choice might have been to releaes the main canopy and deploy the reserve, altitude permitting.
Parachutist Aug. 2002 fatal incident
male 1,200 jumps
Hard landing under a spinning main canopy.

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quickly pulling down on both steering lines at the same time may have corrected the problem and eliminated trying to guess which steering line to release.
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My question. Does this mean one of the toggles came out of the holding band or velcro? was it flapping around? If so why did'nt he see it? Or is this something completely different. What os going on with this mal?
" ah geez" "The two of you's dummy up" !
Archie Bunker

[billvon 2,998]

>My question. Does this mean one of the toggles came out of the
> holding band or velcro? was it flapping around? If so why did'nt he
> see it?

Most likely yes.

We had an almost-mal on one of our dives like this. During the jump I noted a jumper with a toggle and some line trailing behind him in freefall. During breakoff I kept an eye on him. His parachute opened and began to spin. He released the other toggle and it stopped. He never saw the toggle in freefall - it's behind you after all.

[freeflir29 0]

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Does this mean one of the toggles came out of the holding band or velcro? was it flapping around? If so why did'nt he see it?

Yep.....I can tell you from experience that the first time I had a brake come unstowed on deployment it took me a while...(Like 30 seconds or more) to figure out what was wrong. I kept thinking it was a line over so thats what I was looking for. Of course...when that happened it was getting kind of dark too. I kept releasing the right rear riser (At least twice that I remember) and my canopy wanted to turn left. Because my hand was over the brake I didn't immediately notice that it was unstowed. I finally noticed that one brake line was taught and the other had considerable slack. I kind of rolled my right hand off the brake and said "There it is dummy" to myself. I released the other brake, collapsed the slider, and flew home. Now...I had that happen again at WFFC...I noticed it immediately upon checking my canopy. However, I hadn't conciously noticed that I was compensating with the right rear riser until I saw the slack in the brake lines. This time the whole thing was taken care if in about 10 seconds. Keep in mind....on a sub 100 canopy this often means an automatic cutaway because it will spin so fast. On my Stilletto 170....all it takes is a bit of being on the ball with the reflexes.

[Rdutch 0]

I dont know what happend, but if your toggle is released with the canopy open, the tension from the canopy pulls it, so it will look like its still held. There wont be any flapping around. The only way to know is the top of the toggle wont be in the keeper. Unless, it wasnt set right when it was packed. I always try to release both my brakes if my canopy is spinning. Or use my risers to fly my canopy straight. Either way when in doubt cut it away. I dont know if this person was too low to cut away, or just lost track of time, but it is a sin to not try everything, never go in with handles in place. Maybe if he had pulled his reserve and got some more material up there he would be alive today. Never know, never will.

Ray

Ray
Small and fast what every girl dreams of!

[lummy 4]

I've had this happen to me once (one brake released) that put me into a spin. When looking at the toggles, both were up against the little ringstop and looked pretty normal. I grabbed both and only felt the right side pull away from the velcro. The point is, for me at least, when the brake popped, it didn't dangle lower like you would think.

I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. eat sushi, get smoochieTTK#1

[quade 4]

I'll have to post some frame grabs later tonight of exactly what that looks like from the camera flyer's perspective. WAY scary.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[ernokaikkonen 0]

I've had a couple toggles blown loose during opening, but every time I have been able to correct the turn/spin using a rear riser. Is it possible to do this with any canopy/wingloading, or will it become more difficult(impossible?) with higher wingloadings?

Freebird: As to why the jumper didn't see the unstowed toggle, it can be difficult to see things straight when the canopy is spinning you around. I've had one cutaway from a spinning main, and before I cut away, all I could see was a blur.

Erno

[freeflir29 0]

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Is it possible to do this with any canopy/wingloading, or will it become more difficult(impossible?) with higher wingloadings?

I have seen higher wingloading (sub 100/1.8 or more) go into severe line twists because of an unstowed toggle. Now...it's just a vicious circle. The unstowed brake causes a spin...the lines twist lock the brake line in place and the centrifugal force can make it impossible to kick out and only perpetuates more line twists. Add in the rapid altitude loss of a small canopy in a spin and this gives you a VERY short time to try and save it.

[dreamsville 0]

To add to this, if there are line twists you may have to cut away since the force of the spin and the twists may prevent righting of the canopy. This happened this summer to someone at our DZ who fought it well after the spin had gone into a "break" (top of canopy almost appears to be diving). He chopped in time to land with a couple of bruises as his reserve slider was coming down at the tree level.

Without twists, it looks like everyone here is on the ball about it. Either by riser or by brake lines, if you can straighten it fast then you can look for traffic and make other decisions once the immediate crisis is past. Hopefully there will be no other crises.

Harry

I don't drink during the day, so I don't know what it is about this airline. I keep falling out the door of the plane.

Harry, FB #4143

[Dumpster 0]

Question:

What might the most common cause of brakes coming unstowed in the first place?

Easy Does It

[ernokaikkonen 0]

>What might the most common cause of brakes coming
>unstowed in the first place?

Packing errors, neglect of maintenance, bad toggle-design.

Not necessarily in that order. Other thoughts?

Erno

[Samurai136 0]

1. Failure to properrly maintain and/or setting of brakes.

2. Freeflying. A friend of mine, exclusively freeflys, had his toggle come loose and KNOT the brake line around the riser. He had to chop it. It happened while the riser/ toggles were in the container before deployment. Deployment just set the knot and put the canopy in an obviously uncontroled spin. He even jumps a freefly friendly rig w/ the riser covers down the side of the container. (Mirage I think..)

3. Random acts of Karma and assorted bad luck.

Ken

"Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian
Ken

[wlie 0]

I had that happen to me too. But mine was because the brake stow was worn and it finally broke. I noted this when I packed it last. Not very smart.

Fortunately it was a Silhouette 190 loaded at 1.16. It did turn immediately, but it was slow enough I had time to release the other toggle and it flew straight. In the meantime, I kept trying to catch the prematurely released toggle because it was flopping around. Steering was done using rear risers until I got both toggles in my hands.

[SniperCJ 0]

This was the cause if my first mal a couple years ago. Sucker spun up and started spinning me. I never saw the unstowed brake line until it was pointed out to me on the ground after the main was recovered.

Girlfriend saw it from above me and said it looked pretty wicked watching me spin around like that.

Ive since had a toggle come unstowed a few more times and have caught it right away every time. Pop the other one loose and fly on.

JC

[freeflir29 0]

JUST DON'T EVER UNSTOW THE TOGGLES IN LINE TWISTS!!!! Sorry...it had to be said......it's that Coach's Course bubbling to the top.

[JDBoston 0]

My toggles are held on the risers with snaps, no velcro. I'd be shocked if one of them ever popped off prematurely. But I guess anything can happen.

Joe

[adamT 0]

I once unstowed one of my own brakes during deployment. I reached up and grabbed the risers as i got stood up but my right hand also gripped the brake and it came loose. It was a big canopy and it didn't spin fast, plus I realized the problem immediately because the toggle was in my hand when i let go of the risers.
adam

[blondeflyer7 0]

Actually I had both of my risers unstowed and it wasn't a very pretty opening, I climbed up and managed to get both........I had BIG lashes under both of my legs and a goot riser slap in the nose..Real fun opening! Yeah right

[Merrick 0]

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I kept releasing the right rear riser (At least twice that I remember) and my canopy wanted to turn left.
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that I was compensating with the right rear riser until I saw the slack ...

Dude, what's wrong with your ride that the left brake keeps coming unstowed? Not implying anything, just curious if it's something that needs checked into or what. However, I can't think of anything off the top of my head myself that would make that happen often.

Blues!

Merrick

[freeflir29 0]

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Dude, what's wrong with your ride that the left brake keeps coming unstowed?

It's the right side. I think it's a combo of velcroless risers and that the toggles are getting kinda flimsy. I'll probably tack on a wee spot of velcro to remedy this situation. It has only happened twice in 100+ jumps on the canopy. So, it's not like it happens every weekend and it's no big deal on my Stilletto/Manta 170.....

[weid14 0]

I'm going to address this to everyone who responded to the initial question. While it is OK to speculate on this type of mal, and what you can do to prevent/correct the situation, you were not there to see this actual event, so I would ask that you not speculate on the particular event.

The male in question was my team mate, we had made the last 800-900 skydives together, I flew within 25 feet of him under canopy and could see there was an issue. Why it would not release no one will ever know. He had landed the canopy in this fashion more than once. why he dind't choose to cut away is pure speculation. I have my theories but they are just that.

If you have specific questions, please PM me. thanks.

dave