BikerBabe 0 #26 August 2, 2002 Quote"You'll be spending the next 6 years of your life being ordered around by people dumber than you." grrrrrrrr..... I'm really glad the awesome enlisted folks I work with don't have this attitude.Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jfields 0 #27 August 2, 2002 Quotegrrrrrrrr..... I'm really glad the awesome enlisted folks I work with don't have this attitude. While I am sure you are an exception to that generalization, there is a lot of truth in it if you are a smart, educated enlisted person. You end up working for lots of knucklehead NCOs and officers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shark 0 #28 August 2, 2002 Quoteshark you were in the navy right? How did they pay? it sucks, but you are not in it for the money. (sounds like instructing at a dropzone) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chicagoskydiver 0 #29 August 2, 2002 I spent three years in the Army as a medic and I have absolutely no regrets. Yeah, it really sucked sometimes, but nothing worthwhile comes easy. This was in the late eighties and I think I was making somewhere around $18k a year because I got allowances for quarters and food because I was married. Single soldiers get paid less, but they get free room and board. This is the key....with the GI bill and Army College Fund my college was 100% paid for. I figure I recieved about $50k in college benefits from my military service. Not to mention I got free medical and dental while I was in, and low cost life insurance. When my daughter was born, it cost me $25 at a civilian hospital which I paid in cash on the way home, and that was just to cover food. My wife (at the time) stayed there for three days. I challenge anyone to find a civilian employer anywhere that will take a kid fresh from high school with no real skills and give them a job with those benefits and on the job training. No civilian employer I can think of would do that.Hackey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spy38W 0 #30 August 2, 2002 QuoteThis is the key....with the GI bill and Army College Fund my college was 100% paid for. I figure I recieved about $50k in college benefits from my military service. So then my next question, I've got my Bachelors degree, and don't plan on going back to college in the near future, or ever really. Still a good idea? -- Hook high, flare on time Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #31 August 2, 2002 In my 20 years of service I have seen quite a bit of the good and the bad. I was lucky enough to pass all the challenging courses that were available to a young thrill-seeker and thus ended up in a very rewarding carreer field. The service has taken me all around the world several times and while some of the trips were truly lame, the great majority of them were fantastic. While the initial pay on the enlisted side is low, it is more than you need to get by on. I went in to the service with a dude that was 31 years old. Hell, there was an article in the paper about some pro football player that just quit the NFL and joined the army to become a Ranger. There is a guy here in the Q-course with a PhD and was a history professor at Dartmouth. He decided he wanted to be an action guy, so he enlisted in the army as an E4 and is now an E5 in the course. Bottom line is age and experience will get you through the tough times much easier than the "kids". Also, having a good head on your shoulders will get you promoted faster. The army paid for every cent of my college education and if I had wanted to, I could have went to OCS a decade ago. Not my bag, but I don't have any opinion one way or another about the people who choose to stand on the other side of the line, so long as they don't act big headed or think they actually have anything on me; they do not. As far as people talking crap about military officers, NCO's, or any other rank or branch; that's just juvenile. What you do at work has absolutely no bearing on how you act out of uniform. I skydive at a very military-populated dropzone and we absolutely do not tollerate the rank/caste system. If you can't funtion on a first name basis, then you will be shunned. We don't care where you work, where you went to school, or who you know so long as you can skydive. As cool as you may think you are, there are plenty of cooler people on Raeford DZ, they just don't run their mouths or toot their own horns. I belive SlotPerfect and CoconutMonkey will attest to that. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chicagoskydiver 0 #32 August 2, 2002 QuoteQuoteThis is the key....with the GI bill and Army College Fund my college was 100% paid for. I figure I recieved about $50k in college benefits from my military service. So then my next question, I've got my Bachelors degree, and don't plan on going back to college in the near future, or ever really. Still a good idea? For you, maybe not. If you do, go in as an officer. Being enlisted sucks. It may help you with pursuing a graduate degree if that's what you want. Other intangible benefits include travel. Try to get an overseas assignment. The way I see it, the military is like one of those places that's great to visit but I wouldn't want to stay there. It's an entirely different way of life, and it taught me a lot.Hackey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shark 0 #33 August 2, 2002 QuoteI skydive at a very military-populated dropzone and we absolutely do not tollerate the rank/caste system. If you can't funtion on a first name basis, then you will be shunned. We don't care where you work, where you went to school, or who you know so long as you can skydive. Very well said, and it's reality. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slotperfect 7 #34 August 2, 2002 Your age should definitely NOT be a factor. If you choose to be a "lifer" and put in 20 years like Chuck and I (Tom too, I think), you will be 42 when you retire. There's a lot of life left at that point. Besides, you'll be able to start your mid-life crisis with 2 years left until retirement, and ride around in your little red convertible and impress all of your firends! I am counting down to mine . . .Arrive Safely John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slotperfect 7 #35 August 2, 2002 There are people at Raeford that you would not even know they are in the military until you get to know them. "Pulling rank" in most 0ff-duty situations is really weak to begin with. All of us, military or not, are better off in that enviroment dealing with people on a human-to-human level.Arrive Safely John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Viking 0 #36 August 2, 2002 Ok so how is the boot camp in the Airforce and Navy?I swear you must have footprints on the back of your helmet - chicagoskydiver My God has a bigger dick than your god -George Carlin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #37 August 2, 2002 Given those two choices, and the desire to stay an active skydiver without any six-month interuptions, you ought to look into the airforce. While I have nothing against people who choose the navy as a carreer, the great majority of regular navy personnel work horrible schedules. Not gonna get any skydiving done out on float in the Med, that's for sure. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shark 0 #38 August 2, 2002 QuoteOk so how is the boot camp in the Airforce and Navy? Now that I think about it, join the Navy, do a couple of WestPacs/Med cuises, go to exotic places and get Laid! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jfields 0 #39 August 2, 2002 Viking, My comments are from Army experience, but they probably hold true to others, in one way or another... If your attitude is right, you would be able to go through the initial training of any of the services. The physical part isn't the issue, assuming you can pass the (low) standards to get in. You don't even need to be in good shape. They take care of that during the training. It is all mental. With anything in the military, the harder you push against the system, the harder it pushes back. The people with bad attitudes in basic training were the ones who (rightfully) got most of the attention of the drill sergeants. You don't want that attention. If you understand that they are doing the job of starting you on the path from civilian to soldier, you blow off the times they yell at you. I don't mean that you don't do what they say, but you don't take it as a personal insult and get hostile back at them. When one idiot screws up and the whole group gets punished, it is part of the plan. Honestly, it is basic Psych 101, but a lot of recruits don't understand that. If you do, you will have an easy time with the "mental molding" portion of training. The physical part just happens. I'm sure some of the career folks could shed more light on this. Although they only went through it once, like me, they have more military perspective on it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
txojumps 0 #40 August 2, 2002 http://www.airforce.com/index_fr.htm *************************************** Awright, guys, you don't have one, so don't act like one Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Viking 0 #41 August 2, 2002 QuoteQuoteOk so how is the boot camp in the Airforce and Navy? Now that I think about it, join the Navy, do a couple of WestPacs/Med cuises, go to exotic places and get Laid! i was wondering when someone was going to say that!I swear you must have footprints on the back of your helmet - chicagoskydiver My God has a bigger dick than your god -George Carlin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BikerBabe 0 #42 August 2, 2002 What Justin says is right on the money. The point of basic training isn't really to grind you physically to the ground. It's really to re-mold your identity from the rebellious, authority-defying teenager that you were into the (somewhat) conformist, order-following private/airman/sailor/cadet. The attitude is that you can't be a good leader without having been a good follower first, which makes a lot of sense. The way they do that is by taking every vestige of your previous life away and slowly replacing those with military values (or whatever you want to call them). Why do you think they shave your head? Yes, it's practical, but really it's so that everyone starts the same. I went through basic training with the attitude of "they can change the way I behave around authority, and they can make me respect the need to follow orders, but they cannot change my basic personality." Maybe that wasn't the best way, but it sure made basic a heck of a lot less stressful and even kind of fun in some places (I loved the ropes/confidence/obstacle courses).Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
txojumps 0 #43 August 2, 2002 The Air Force has a photography career field also. The Air Force... it's like being a civilian wearing a uniform to work. *************************************** Awright, guys, you don't have one, so don't act like one Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #44 August 2, 2002 I can't say that I regret even one minute of my ten years in. As far as low pay goes??? I have a pretty decent job as a civilian. I make exactly $19.63 per hour (Till the end of the month when I get another raise!!!) and I bring home somewhere around $500 per week. It varies depending on overtime, shifts, blah blah blah. It's a union job so if I have to sneeze on company time Bellsouth has to pay me extra... Now...lets look at what I was making in the military. After 10 years...2 and a half of those as an E-5 (Sewed it on EXACTLY at the time the Air Force said I should per career progression standards) I was bringing home between $1400 and $1500 every two weeks. Yes kids..thats about $3000 per month. I claimed 1 on my taxes and usually got back somewhere between $500-1000 for a tax return. I NEVER had to pay. Didn't pay any state taxes as a Montana resident. So...how is it that I technically "make" about twice what I was in the military but bring home less money? Simple....my pay in the military was something like this....Base pay ~$1500 per month as an E-5.....Basic Allowance for Housing (Covers a food allowance too) ~$575....Special duty pay for being an Enlisted Terminal Attack Controller. Because I had to "Keep Current" IE control a mission a minimum of once every 90 days and take a "Check Ride" just like a pilot once per year. Also had to control each type of mission..Day, night, live, helo, etc etc $225. Static Line parachute pay $165. I'm missing some other money too cause it doesn't quite add up yet. Needless to say I was doing OK.... So....half of all that money was NON-TAXABLE!!!! I remember that I paid a total of about $277 in taxes per month. Now....I pay WELL over $300 in a two week period. That sucks ass!!! Now...lets look at the experience side. I did a lot of really cool stuff. I got to work on damn near every aircraft in the US inventory at one time or another. I did maintenance Nuclear weapons. I spent 6 years doing all manner of "Cool Guy" stuff. All the stuff you see in movies. Riding on the outside an MD-500 helicopter in the middle of the night for an infil? Done it. Fast rope and jump out of numerous aircraft to include foreign fixed and rotary wing? Done it. Drop 500 and 2000lb bombs, play with truckloads of C-4, shoot every small arm imagineable, shoot hundreds of artillery shells and mortars? Done it. Spent 17 days in Cairo Egypt. I went to work exactly 5 times. Bought a lot of junk, drank many beers, stayed in a 3 star hotel, saw several museums. Came home with $250 MORE than when I started. Went to Alaska for 2 weeks. Did a lot fishing. Drank beer every night. Got laid several times. Went fishing EVERY day. Did a few jumps, dropped a few bombs, and came home with money in my pocket and a hangover. With all the TDY time I have probably spent close to a year living in Ft. Walton Beach Florida. I have gone out to AJ's in (Government owned) Boston Whaler boat. Done more partying there than any other place in the planet except maybe Korea. I could go on for hours about all the neat shit I got to do. Of course...I could also tell you about the year of absolute hell the military put me through. It isn't perfect.....it's life. I'm glad I went in the military. I think in the end that I came out a far better and wiser person. I wouldn't trade those ten years for anything. Because of my military service I now have friends scattered all over the world. It's surely your choice...some days I wish I had gone to college instead but they are few. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BikerBabe 0 #45 August 2, 2002 Amen, Clay. Don't forget the 30 days per year paid vacation...Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #46 August 2, 2002 Oh yeah.....I almost forgot. Because of my military service I may very well get one of the coolest jobs in the world one day soon. Even if I don't end up with that goverment job I'm well on my way to finishing a civilian school that will give me a job almost as cool. I couldn't do any of this stuff if I hadn't joined the military. It's done a lot of great things for me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Viking 0 #47 August 3, 2002 ....................who are you and where is the clay that would have told to join the navy if i liked teh butt sexxx? thanx for the good info clay.I swear you must have footprints on the back of your helmet - chicagoskydiver My God has a bigger dick than your god -George Carlin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jtval 0 #48 August 3, 2002 "You'll be spending the next 6 years of your life being ordered around by people dumber than you." Viking, I would stay in school and go ROTC,if I were you. this way you get to boss around all those "Smart" people who are making MUCH less than you are! If I decide to stay iN I am going for my commision so I can be with those stupid people up top. youve gotta understand the alot of the "stupid" decisions are made just to piss off the enlisted corp. they love watching us work while we'e pissed off.(of, course that is not true Im just being sarcastic.) Ive actually Met a bunch of cool officers AND enlisted. I dont think rank has anything to do with how much of an asshole someone is!My photos My Videos Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #49 August 3, 2002 Quotewho are you and where is the clay that would have told to join the navy if i liked teh butt sexxx? Well...that is a true statement. Unless you want to become a "Squeel" That job will set you up right for the future. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
prepheckt 0 #50 August 3, 2002 True that...I have friends here at the AFA who are 22-24...Age doesn't matter, just ability. blue ones"Dancing Argentine Tango is like doing calculus with your feet." -9 toes Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
