Rhonda66 0 #1 August 4, 2002 Hi - I'm learning to fly in a C-152 out of Bedford, MA and I should be soloing this month after I get my medical certificates on the 12th. My husband asked me today if I would be able to let him jump from the 152 after I get my PPL under any circumstances. My questions are - 1. Would he be able to jump with me as a certified private pilot if we filed the appropriate paperwork with the FAA? Would I need a minimum number of hours or a special rating? I'm sure there are all sorts of issues involved here so any info. would be appreciated... 2. Is it possible to get out of a 152 that doesn't have a door that's modified for skydiving? I'd have to find out if they would even allow it in a rented 152 and they probably wouldn't, but I'm just curious if anyone has ever flown jumpers somewhere other than a drop zone or demo event and how complicated it is to do that legally... Thanks, RhondaRhonda PP ASEL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bbarnhouse 0 #2 August 4, 2002 Rhonda~ email Diverdriver. Cheers! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rhonda66 0 #3 August 4, 2002 Yeah, I figured he'd know...I'll email him if he doesn't see the post... Thanks.Rhonda PP ASEL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveMonkey 0 #4 August 4, 2002 You can always work off the "what they don't know won't hurt them" rule ____________________ Say no to subliminal messages Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rhonda66 0 #5 August 4, 2002 Yeah, I think that's what my husband wants to do, but in light of 9/11, I'd rather not get shot down Rhonda PP ASEL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveMonkey 0 #6 August 4, 2002 If that happens, dive out after him and steal his rig !! ____________________ Say no to subliminal messages Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rhonda66 0 #7 August 5, 2002 hehe - not a bad idea but I'd still like to keep it legal - especially around here...Rhonda PP ASEL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveMonkey 0 #8 August 5, 2002 It's only illegal if you get caught. ____________________ Say no to subliminal messages Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rhonda66 0 #9 August 5, 2002 Well, it's still not going to work if he can't get out of the plane Rhonda PP ASEL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sinkster 0 #10 August 5, 2002 to answer ur question i have a friend who has jumped from a cessna or two in flight with the normal doors and he says it's tough to push against the wind but apparently he was able to do it. When the park ranger showed up and asked who the pilot was he just said "i dunno i just hitched a ride" lol EDIT: He also took the passenger side door off as well. (as another solution.) Said it was pretty easy to remove and put back on. From my own personal experience with 152's the worst thing is how little room there is sitting in the seat once u have ur rig on! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rhonda66 0 #11 August 5, 2002 Did he get arrested?Rhonda PP ASEL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #12 August 5, 2002 If you go through all the steps, it's legal but I personally wouldnt do it. I'm not a jump pilot by the way, just a 172 driver. If you yaw a little to the right I don't think it would be too hard to open the door enough to jump, but there would be plenty of stuff to snag on and everything. Just doesn't seem worth the risk to me. Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rhonda66 0 #13 August 5, 2002 That's the thing - I find it hard enough to get in and out of on the ground...but he thinks he can do it and if he says he can, then he probably can...I wouldn't mind letting him try sometime after I get my PPL and am comfortable with trying it, but I want to know if it's something we can even consider doing... Thanks.Rhonda PP ASEL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
howardwhite 6 #14 August 5, 2002 I've jumped out of 150s several times, one an Aerobat with the door on but still easy to push; as I recall, it didn't have a window. If you want to take the door off, you need to get a piece of paper from the FAA that says it's o.k. ; there's a list in the Advisory Circular in the back of the SIM of planes that can get such approval, but I suspect the place you're renting would frown on it. HW Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jonno5 0 #16 August 5, 2002 From what i know of FBO's who rent, if you get caught you will never rent there again.Also i would get a few more hours after your Private before you even attempt to try flying jumpers.Just my opinion,as a helicopter pilot i am always being asked to fly jumpers, Sometimes i do, sometimes i dont, but dont let anyone pressure you into doing something you are not ready for....just like skydiving. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 6 #17 August 5, 2002 Hi Rhonda, Ok.......Cessna 152/150 jump plane = Bad Idea. Here's why: You will have just over the minimum hours required for the PPL. This is not a lot of experience to draw from. Do you plan to fly with a bail out rig? The doorway is so small and awkward that the possibility of a premature deployment is very high. If that happens then it would very likely go over the tail and take it off or damage it to a point beyond your experience level to deal with. "Should I stay or should I go now?" To do it legally you would need to get the airport owner's/land owner's permission to do skydives over it. Do not drop over a congested area. That can be defined by one farm house and barn. You have the FAR about creating a hazard by dropping objects. Go to my site and read the FARs on skydiving and the Advisory Circulars there. It should help educate you some things. Do you own the aircraft? You risk losing your insurance if they have not been notified that you want to use the plane for skydiving. If you're renting the plane then you risk the chance they will never rent to you again. But I would say the hazard to your life and your husbands is much greater trying to do this than any legal problem you could have.Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dutchboy 0 #18 August 5, 2002 QuoteI'm learning to fly in a C-152 out of Bedford, MA and I should be soloing this month after I get my medical certificates on the 12th. Congratulations on learning to fly! Quote 1. Would he be able to jump with me as a certified private pilot if we filed the appropriate paperwork with the FAA? Would I need a minimum number of hours or a special rating? I'm sure there are all sorts of issues involved here so any info. would be appreciated... You can throw him out of the plane legally as long as you don't charge him for it. You aren't prevented from dropping skydivers, as long as none of them are paying, and you aren't being compensated. Quote 2. Is it possible to get out of a 152 that doesn't have a door that's modified for skydiving? They probably won't allow it in a rented plane, period. I would agree with Chris, a 152 is not a good jump plane, especially if it doesn't have the correct door. If you really want to drop someone I would get your license, then go get your high performance endorsement, preferably in a 182. You might be able to work something out with a local DZ to drop someone. Essentially you would be renting their plane for the jump. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rhonda66 0 #19 August 5, 2002 Hey Howard - Somehow it doesn't surprise me that you've done it You know Adrian and if he thinks he can do it, I'm sure he can get out without taking the plane down with him... Chris, I wouldn't do it until I was quite experienced. I'm a pretty conservative person so I wouldn't do it right after I got my PPL, but we want to know if we can even consider it later. Not that we don't love Jumptown of course, Howard I'm sure that it would be an issue with a rented plane, but if I really love flying still after I get the PPL then I may consider purchasing a 152, especially if Adrian can jump out of it too...anything larger and equipped for skydiving purposes is going to run way out of my price range... The place he wants to jump into isn't conjested and is a large field that has a bigger landing area than some DZ's we've jumped at. It's a field where we fly R/C aircraft... Thanks Rhonda PP ASEL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 6 #20 August 5, 2002 Rhonda, Again, I really hope you do not use a 152 for jumping. I'm 6' and skinny as hell and without a rig I'm jammed in there. Getting the seat back enough to swing out and roll out the door would be tough. I know you want to believe in your husbands ability to get out without taking the plane down but I still strongly recommend not using a 152 (even if all else is approved) for jumping from. If you want to keep the cost of purchase down I would recommend getting a Cessna 172. They are approved for flight with the door off. I would have to look further to see if a 337 is required in the aircraft paperwork to actually take the door off and fly. I also want to reiterate that the insurance company may not like it at all. Most insurance companies I know require 500 TT and 50 in type to fly jumpers. I'm not sure if they would agree with insuring you for the sole purpose of flying only your husband. As far as renting a 182 from a local jump club I don't think that would work out either again because of the insurance thing. Sorry to be a wet blanket here. Just trying to give the most amount of information to keep you safe and legal. Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #21 August 5, 2002 "Diverdriver" brings up many good points about not using a 152 and forgive me if this has already been brought up, but what about the aircraft's performance? I have never flown a C-152, but I did train on C-172Ps (which are the 160hp version) and with myself and my instructor on board, climbing to altitude was occasionally a challenge on the hot high density altitude days. Heck even the new C-172Ss that I occasionally fly can be challenging to get to altitude with any sort of weight on a hot high density altitude day. I would only be comfortable flying a C-182 (or better) if I was to think about ferrying ski divers to altitude. But I won't be doing that anytime soon as I only have 150+ hours and must rent from an FBO. Besides, now that I've passed my AFF course, I want to jump out of the airplane (though I still plan on staying current with a couple of flights a month). Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rhonda66 0 #22 August 5, 2002 Hey - You're not a "wet blanket" - I appreciate the info. I don't see all that much difference between doing it with a 152 and a 172 - you have more room in the back of course, but not too much more in the front and we're both fairly small - about 5'5", 135-140 pounds each and he jumps a 107 so I don't think weight would be a huge issue. Myself, I find I have alot of room in the cockpit and always have to move the seat way up to reach the rudder/brake pedals and I usually still can barely reach them with the seat all the way forward so I could wear my gear comfortably and still be able to fly. You still have to deal with getting the door open (unless you take it off) and getting out without a step. Hypothetically, let's say it's a 172 anyway then since it would only take a few hours to get checked out in the 172s according to my CFI, and I was to get in a considerable amount of hours in the 172 - would you do it then? I was surprised that skydiving isn't included the list of "do not do's" on the rental agreements from my flying club - They say no aerobatics and no passengers for hire, but it doesn't specifically say no skydiving...Rhonda PP ASEL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #23 August 5, 2002 It would be in your best long term interest to be honest with them and ask them about their skydiving policy before hand. Are you willing to risk being banned from flying their airplanes if word got out? Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #24 August 5, 2002 I always figured the easiest way to do it in a 172 (with the door on) is to have the jumper sitting in back and someone else up front to hold the door open. It's kind of a tight squeeze getting out of the back but I think it could be done that way. Not sure how hard it would be to push the door so I don't know how necessary a 3rd person would really be. I'd be most worried about all the snag points around the doorway. But if it looks safe to you and your husband and you really wanna do it, I'm sure it's possible. If you're renting, or if you aren't sure about your insurance covering it and all that, you can either try to get the proper permissions or just go ahead and risk it. Just be aware of the consequences. After getting your license, take your husband up and have him open the door to see what it's like. Might change both of your minds. Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rhonda66 0 #25 August 5, 2002 Hi - I said before I'd either buy my own aircraft or talk to them first - if I was a complete schmuck, I'd just do it and not even be out here asking, right? I'm sure there are plenty of jumpers who have done just that I just said I was surprised it wasn't specifically included in the agreement...Rhonda PP ASEL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
