Still relevant? The Parachute Manual : A Technical Treatise on Aerodynamic Decelerators (Vol. 2)

[3mpire 0]

I'm looking for ways to self-educate about gear in a more structured way. Instead of just trolling the forum for unfamiliar terms and asking questions, I'd like to try to learn in a more top to bottom fashion so I have a better baseline of knowledge.

I read in a sticky on this forum about Dan Poynter's books and I see that they are highly recommended.

Volume II covers parachutes post 1985 but it was published in 1991. I know that since then parachutes in particular have changed a lot.

Since the book is 50 bucks new and 40 bucks used, I wanted to get some feedback on if it's worth the high cost given that it's 20 years old.

Don't get me wrong, I love learning about vintage gear and whatnot and I would like to eventually expand my knowledge to cover as much as I can.

But I'd like to first become more knowledgeable about the gear I'm either jumping or might come across at the DZ.

Is this still a good book to get? Is there anything more recent or less expensive that might be worth a look?

Thanks!

[pchapman 279]

You've downloaded the 2005 FAA-H-8083-17 Parachute Rigger Handbook already?
That would be the place to start these days.

A high quality, heavy page stock paper copy is available too, although expensive.

Eric Fradet's rigging manual is really interesting in its look at modern gear, and is out there somewhere on the web. But because those French speak French, it's in French.

Someone else could better compare the "8083" to Poynter's II, but I'll have to admit the latter is dated. Still nice for historical stuff and basic rigging techniques, where either book might have more than the other on a particular subject. 8083 is more step by step in its rigging repair instructions, but is maybe a little thinner on theory -- instead of going over stitching concepts, it might just say 'check that the stitching is the same as the original'.

[3mpire 0]

pchapman

You've downloaded the 2005 FAA-H-8083-17 Parachute Rigger Handbook already?
That would be the place to start these days.

I was sent a link to the FAA-H-8083-17 Parachute Rigger Handbook via a PM shortly after I posted so I do have that on my reading list. Soft copy is fine for me though if I really needed to I'm sure I could print a copy out and stick it in a binder.

My friend and rigger suggested I check out Poynter's book from the library, so I'll be doing that as well.

The 8083 is at least a good place to start--thanks for the tips!

[masterrigger1 2]

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Is this still a good book to get?

Absolutely! Get both Volume I and II.
They both have a lot of reference material that is still used today.

The Parachute manual that Peter referenced is not a very good one. It has numerous errors through out it's context.
Bad enough that it is being re-written right now.

MEL

Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC
www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

[pchapman 279]

I guess there's no expected date on completing that rewrite for the FAA, Mel?

Part of the problem I guess was that it was largely the work of one person, which is sometimes needed to get something done, but then it reflects the biases and opinions of that one person.

Was it more those kind of errors you were talking about, rather than typos and poor instructions? I know you've posted on the subject before but I don't recall exactly.

For example, if it were something about line repair, a specialty of yours, would you be thinking more like
a) "that's plain bad advice!" or
b) "well, that's acceptable but ignores the latest knowledge even as of 2005" or
c) "well, that's acceptable but applies to Spectra while totally ignoring HMA, which did exist in 2005".

Just trying to get a feel for the types of problems you saw.

[councilman24 37]

Most experienced riggers had grief with the FAA handbook when it came out. Some were obviously wrong. (said a rigger candidate only needed one 8610-2 not two). Some were obsolete. It references all the mil specs for the materials but they were all cancelled in 1998 and replaced by pia specs. Mil specs are still the 'language' of the industry and hence still referenced in places like D J Associates website but everything new sold is PIA spec labeled.

Other things are a matter of opinion. MEL has one, Sandy has one, I have one, Bauer has one, DeWolf has one as well as every other rigger. I haven't met two experienced riggers that agree on everything yet. MEL's list of errors isn't going to be my list or errors.

One problem is that the FAA HAS looked at their handbook and said 'this is the only way'. What I feared when it came out without more than one method or opinion on things that can and do vary.

BTW I was working on the rewrite for a short time (a year and a half ago, hmm or was it 2 and 1/2?) but the support and communication from the company with the contract wasn't acceptable to me.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[parachutist 2]

masterrigger1

The Parachute manual that Peter referenced is not a very good one. It has numerous errors through out it's context.

That "8083", aka Rigger Handbook, has a shining advantage compared to all others: It's easy to read. That makes the info easier to absorb by new/potential riggers. Some fantastic info is found within those pages, and to top it all off, one can quickly locate the subject of interest. With Poynter's books, I feel like the only reason I know how to find subjects is that I've spent hours looking through them in the past.

Errors are in writings everywhere, even in your sentence talking about errors. Some other manuals in this industry are far more atrocious, but surprisingly I never hear people complaining about those. An easy example is the Sigma manual. Why is there a picture of the reserve bridle here?

[inline sigmaerror.jpg]

UPT is in the business of making parachute containers, not manuals. So while they made numerous errors that are very easy to spot, it's not surprising. That doesn't make the whole manual invalid.

[masterrigger1 2]

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That "8083", aka Rigger Handbook, has a shining advantage compared to all others: It's easy to read. That makes the info easier to absorb by new/potential riggers. Some fantastic info is found within those pages, and to top it all off, one can quickly locate the subject of interest.

It has a lot of photos that makes it really shiny.
The basic jest of the manual leans towards Rigging Innovations equipment,...like 95% leaning.......
I could understand this If they were not located right by one of the worlds largest DZs were other gear was readily available.

I cannot find any info in there that IMO is considered fantastic though.

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With Poynter's books, I feel like the only reason I know how to find subjects is that I've spent hours looking through them in the past.

It is a simple numbering system, so I do not understand the issue with locating the information there.

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Errors are in writings everywhere, even in your sentence talking about errors.

The difference in my errors is that mine are for a forum.

Theirs was for a subject matter book that should have been both proof read and peer reviewed by someone outside of their click; which the later was never really done.

I also usually get on here very early in the AM where I am both still trying to wake up and rush out the door resulting in a very error prone situation.

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UPT is in the business of making parachute containers, not manuals. So while they made numerous errors that are very easy to spot, it's not surprising. That doesn't make the whole manual invalid.

Depends.
You never know what 12 gray haired ladies sitting in a jury box may think!

MEL

Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC
www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

[parachutist 2]

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The basic jest of the manual leans towards Rigging Innovations equipment,...like 95% leaning.......

True, however there's not much difference in the industry. After learning how one company does it, it's pretty easy to port that knowledge over to other similar devices.

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I cannot find any info in there that IMO is considered fantastic though.

I believe that's because we had different perspectives when first reading it 10 years ago. You were already a master rigger with miles of experience. I was a new senior rigger, waiting on FAA to process the paperwork for my license. There are some good explanations of rigging essentials inside, and I was still looking for more explanations. The rigger manual was all about the gear and tools I'd be working with.

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The difference in my errors is that mine are for a forum.

Theirs was for a subject matter book that should have been both proof read and peer reviewed by someone outside of their click; which the later was never really done.

Yes I agree that a review by others is necessary for any publication. Honestly though, after watching you DPREs argue at extreme length about so many details of FAA interpretations, I don't believe anything would have been published. The manual would be forever waiting on people to agree or compromise, and it would not get through the red tape, IMO.

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Depends.
You never know what 12 gray haired ladies sitting in a jury box may think!

I'm always surprised by the legal system, but I don't see how the jury relates to this subject. Any discrepancies I've heard of in this manual can be explained by interpretations of ambiguous FAA wording, or typographical errors.

Chris

[3mpire 0]

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A high quality, heavy page stock paper copy is available too, although expensive.

I found a hard copy of the 8083 on Amazon for $15.65
I'll keep my eyes peeled for deals on Poynter's two volumes but will stick with the library for now. Rather than sticking to one source I'll make my way through all of them. As I learn more I'll be able to make sense of what's good and bad info but for now I'll just hoover up everything I find.

I made it about half way through Chapter 3 of the 8083 PDF and it's great for my purposes, but seeing as I'm starting from scratch I don't have anything to compare it to (yet!).