bodypilot90 0 #1 July 24, 2002 I was asked by a dzo this weekend to see how everyone felt about night jumps for D. Seems like other stuff is a lot more urgent. In the past wasn't a real water jump required? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 273 #2 July 24, 2002 While I have no desire to do any more night jumps, I do think that they should remain a requirement for a so-called "expert" license. Why? The "sunset load" that gets off the ground a bit late or ends up having to hold at whatever altitude for however long - these can easily turn into jumps made in less than ideal light conditions. Having actual experience jumping and landing at night means that a jumper is more likely to be able to safely handle those less than ideal conditions. Yes, night jumps can be dangerous, but then again RW, freeflying, CRW and pond swooping can be dangerous too. Yes, there are people out there with medical conditions that affect their night vision but USPA has provided for them by allowing those jumpers to get restricted licenses. The water jump requirement was dropped before I started jumping in 1990, but had it still been required I wouldn't have argued against doing it, and in a way I wish I had done one... for the same reason I'm glad I did 3 night jumps. Those who have experience landing in the water in ideal conditions are more likely to survive landing in the water in less than ideal conditions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bbarnhouse 0 #3 July 24, 2002 I agree that water safety training is important, however night jumps? Sunset loads rarley turn into night loads...NO I don't think so. How many people are really going to jump at night? Furthermore I thought we were a group dedicated to safety. Night jumps create a danger with decreased vision and those with already compromised depth perception will not bode well on said jumps. Please fell free to try to convince me that this is a necessary requirement for any license .Night jump qualifications for pro rating, now that I can understand. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #4 July 24, 2002 QuoteWhile I have no desire to do any more night jumps, I do think that they should remain a requirement for a so-called "expert" license. It is not called an "expert" license. it is called a "D" license. I guess it's been a while since you read the SIM. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #5 July 24, 2002 The "sunset load" argument is totally bogus, since you don't need a "D" to make a sunset jump. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 273 #6 July 24, 2002 QuoteI guess it's been a while since you read the SIM. Yup, it has been awhile. And I just pulled my logbook out and looked at my "D" license, and it doesn't say "expert", it says "master." Much as this pains me to admit... I was wrong. But I still think night jumps are important. Sorry BB, but I've been on more than one "sunset load" that turned into damn near a night jump. And I was glad that I'd already experienced landing in the dark when they did. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scoby 0 #7 July 24, 2002 I'm a new jumper, so feel free to discount my opinion entirely, but I'm actually looking forward to doing a night jump. I can't comment on the necessity of doing them (though I suspect it's the sort of thing that you can't accidentally do). Still, to get the top-level license, one would expect that there would be exceptional case items on there. What sort of items do you think should be on the license instead? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #8 July 24, 2002 The whole ugly mess is here: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=161331;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread I don't have a problems with keeping the night jump requirement for the D, however I would like to see canopy control/coaching made a requirement as well. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #9 July 24, 2002 QuoteI'm a new jumper, so feel free to discount my opinion entirely, but I'm actually looking forward to doing a night jump. Nothing wrong with that, I enjoyed mine too and I expect I'll do more. That is not an argument for making it a license requirement, however. ps I also enjoy driving fast, but that's not a drivers license requirement either. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #10 July 24, 2002 QuoteYup, it has been awhile. And I just pulled my logbook out and looked at my "D" license, and it doesn't say "expert", it says "master." Much as this pains me to admit... I was wrong. Take a look at your CURRENT license/membership card (the one USPA sent you within the last 12 months). Does it say "master" anywhere on it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 273 #11 July 24, 2002 QuoteTake a look at your CURRENT license/membership card (the one USPA sent you within the last 12 months). Does it say "master" anywhere on it? Nope. Neither do the ones that expired in '01, '00, '99 or '98 (those are all I have in my logbook right now). But, by "D" license, I was referring to the actual "license" card that I received back in 1991 - a seperate card from the membership card. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #12 July 24, 2002 Quoteake a look at your CURRENT license/membership card (the one USPA sent you within the last 12 months). Does it say "master" anywhere on it? Nope. Neither do the ones that expired in '01, '00, '99 or '98 (those are all I have in my logbook right now). But, by "D" license, I was referring to the actual "license" card that I received back in 1991 - a seperate card from the membership card. That's because they no longer use those "titles". Just the letters. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 273 #13 July 24, 2002 QuoteThat's because they no longer use those "titles". Just the letters Hm. Just cuz I'm the curious type, I went and dug out my membership cards from the early nineties. License class (letter) and numbers are listed, but no titles. So if you get a D license today it just says D-whatever, no "master" mentioned? Or do you even get a seperate card for the license nowadays? btw, I haven't been an active instructor for 6 years or so; I'm fully aware that things have changed but haven't kept up with exactly what those changes are cuz they don't affect me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #14 July 24, 2002 I have a number of night jumps, FF and RW, personally I thought they were fun and different. Definately something that I will do again and again. --"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bbarnhouse 0 #15 July 24, 2002 Yes that IS what I said kallend.........Lisa hon.........no need to apologize, I respect your opinion. Cheers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverbrian 0 #16 July 24, 2002 My first night jump (for which I've already paid a beer 'fine') was a 3-way RW during where we turned 8 points. Takeoff was 11:30pm with a full moon, but still plenty dark. I was terrified and exhilirated. Kind of like my first tandem. But you're right about the danger. I never saw anyone from the load under canopy and some landed as close as 30yards and 5 seconds away. In a world full of people, only some want to fly... isn't that crazy! --Seal Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #17 July 24, 2002 I've got about as many night jumps as day jumps (in my peculiar parachuting discipline, that's often necessary). I think that the night jump requirement for a D license is a good idea. It's important to prepare people for situations they may find themselves in (emergency or otherwise) at some point in their parachuting career.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GroundZero 0 #18 July 24, 2002 I love night jumps! Is there a reason they should not be required for the highest level of licensing? (Geez, why did we ever throw out water jumps?!?!?!) Folks, I think you're missing the point. Does anyone want to claim competence and still say, "I'm a great head down skydiver, but sometimes I get skeered of pulling my pilot chute...." Wake up folks! We skydive, if you think that there is a great difference between nite and day, perhaps you are not very "Experienced". Chris, still a "student-learning every day", but somewhat experienced! geezus shit people! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #19 July 24, 2002 Well, you have much much more experience then I do, but medically proven, depth perception is off in low light conditions, which is fairly important. Especially if a jumper is jumping something that comes in a bit snappier then their Stratocloud...that would what I would consider a "great difference" between night and day jumps, but then again, I only have 5 night jumps.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GroundZero 0 #20 July 24, 2002 do private pilots have an exemption for nite training? someday we will have a recreational rating for skydiving... Will this be a plus? Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #21 July 24, 2002 As stated earlier, I love night jumps, I think they're fun. I was just mentioning my opinion in reference to your post previous to mine, about the difference between night and day jumps. --"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GroundZero 0 #22 July 24, 2002 Recreational Rating for Skydiving... What do we call it? "A-Minus"? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #23 July 24, 2002 QuoteRecreational Rating for Skydiving... What do we call it? One time tandem student...--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #24 July 24, 2002 Agreed... If you can't hook it at night... you don't need to do it during the day... And yes... I'm up to a few night jumps now and I fly it the same as day. My feet run just as fast at night as they do during the day on a swoop.... Leave it in there.... Its nice to know that if its going to be an iffy if we get to exit with sunlight the JM/pilot can just say any one with a D licence can exit.... everyone else needs to ride the plane down. Other wise you leave it up to the jumper... and you know how many people are going to ride a plane down with out being forced to? None...Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjames 2 #25 July 24, 2002 Nah, I don't think you need a "D" to attain a night jump ... Uhhh wait a minute! reverse that :) Those that can't see aftert dark should stay around the bon fire. Several reasons for this: 1) there is LIGHT to see who is next to ya 2) there is BEER there 3) on the colder nights it's warmer 4) there is one (or more) spaces I can occupy on the AC doing the jump Really now, The most fun I have had on a jump was at night. Midnight jump into yk2 @ Pahokee (Skydive Palm Beach Fl.) 4 way Horny gorilla, you could see both the east and west coasts lights outlining the state under canopy. Plus .. you got to see ALL the fireworks! Not to mention flying on your back on a cloudless night and watching the stars. An "E" ticket ride for sure. Make an "E" licence, you only need it for the "E" ticket rides. "exit fast, fly smooth, dock soft and smile" 'nother james Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
