Is it time to work on 1 year repack cycles?

[piisfish 140]

JerryBaumchen

Hi Nic ( again ),

One more question if you do not mind:

3. Did you find the 'sticky' freebags at the 6-month cycle or at the 1-yr cycle or both; or do you know?

Thanks,

JerryBaumchen

PS) How about you Deyan? Any thoughts on the 6-month vs 1-yr 'sticky' bags?

some were shorter than 6 months since last repack

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[DBCOOPER 5]

It should be 6 months not 180 days . That's the way everything else in aviation works.

Replying to: Re: Stall On Jump Run Emergency Procedure? by billvon

If the plane is unrecoverable then exiting is a very very good idea.

[theplummeter 15]

DBCOOPER

It should be in the proceeding 6 calendar months not 180 days . That's the way everything else in aviation works.

FIFY

[JerryBaumchen 1,372]

Hi Nic,

Quote

Did you find the 'sticky' freebags at the 6-month cycle or at the 1-yr cycle or both; or do you know?

Quote

some were shorter than 6 months since last repack

OK, now I want your thoughts.

Given that we are discussing a 6-month vs 1-yr repack cycle, do you think it would have made any difference in your experience with the 'sticky' freebags?

And there is no wrong answer.

JerryBaumchen

[chuckakers 425]

bodypilot90

Last I heard Germany was on a one year repack cycle, is it time to update the US and others?

What's the point?

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[chuckakers 425]

bodypilot90

But the repacking the reserve causes wear.

Really? Are you really using a pack job every 6 months to justify that logic????

Let's see. In 10 freakin' years, a 6 month repack cycle results in 20 pack jobs. 20. Really - 20.

It's a wonder we can even stand up the landings - what with all the wear and tear of 20 pack jobs.

"Get a life" comes to mind.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[shropshire 0]

chuckakers

***Last I heard Germany was on a one year repack cycle, is it time to update the US and others?

What's the point?

Hi, Are you against the proposal? If so would you please explain why? (personally, I don't know all of the issues, tis why I ask)

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[piisfish 140]

JerryBaumchen

Hi Nic,

Quote

Did you find the 'sticky' freebags at the 6-month cycle or at the 1-yr cycle or both; or do you know?

***some were shorter than 6 months since last repack

OK, now I want your thoughts.

Given that we are discussing a 6-month vs 1-yr repack cycle, do you think it would have made any difference in your experience with the 'sticky' freebags?

And there is no wrong answer.

JerryBaumchenwouldn't change lots on the stickyness issue. But on the general inspection of the gear which MANY jumpers are very bad at.
Jumpers expect that "nothing will move" over a year of jumping. But loops do get damaged, flaps do get abused, velcros do lose hookability, fabric does get extra compression, and reserve PC springs do move around.
Having someone trustworthy and knowledgeable handling your gear twice a year is a good thing in my opinion.
6 months should be good for Many people actually.
The people from the north who have shorter jumping periods would pack/inspect once a year
The people from the south who jump all year long would have their gear checked twice a year

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[Deyan 36]

JerryBaumchen

PS) How about you Deyan? Any thoughts on the 6-month vs 1-yr 'sticky' bags?

When talking about "sticky" stuff, the more it stays, the worse it gets.
My first malfunction was on a round main that was known to have sticky issues. Went to the DZ had a chance to jump " right now", didn't repack it...well, I paid the price. It was 3 months packjob. I never had any problems with it up to a month.

I'm not a big fan of 1 year I+R cycle. Jumpers want that because they think it will cost them less money, which isn't the case.
Like friend of mine said when they switched to 1 year:" Nahh, didn't affect me. I just doubled the prices".

"My belief is that once the doctor whacks you on the butt, all guarantees are off" Jerry Baumchen

[freddysdaddy 0]

The riggers themselves have the biggest interest to have short repack periods. And exactly those guys decide about those periods.

German reserves open as well. So what can be wrong about a 1-year-rule, when so many countries successfully use this 1-year-intervall?

[chuckakers 425]

freddysdaddy

The riggers themselves have the biggest interest to have short repack periods. And exactly those guys decide about those periods.

In the US it's the FAA that decides on repack periods.

Folks talked about the rigger short repack cycle motivation when we began considering the move to 180 days in the US too. It's crap. Riggers want skydivers to be safe and there are definitely things that can be problems with extended cycles.

Just how long can a dead bug sit on your precious nylon decomposing before it weakens the fabric, Hmm? What about a petroleum product that somehow comes into contact with that nylon. How long will it take to weaken it?

I personally know the rigger who discovered the "acid mesh" issue. The fabric on his girlfriend's reserve went from passing the strength test to failing like wet toilet paper within a 90 day repack cycle. Had she needed it, it would have blown to crap on deployment. Interestingly, he had repacked that reserve many times before the fabric broke down.

How long is too long? We don't know, but in that case the answer was something less than 90 days.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[chuckakers 425]

shropshire

******Last I heard Germany was on a one year repack cycle, is it time to update the US and others?

What's the point?

Hi, Are you against the proposal? If so would you please explain why? (personally, I don't know all of the issues, tis why I ask)

I'm not for or against, but....

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view&post=4529091#last

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[shropshire 0]

Thank

(Sorry the link brings me back to your post above)

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Shredex 0]

Shhh!!!

Don't take the work away from the Riggers! They got bills to pay too ;p

[bodypilot90 0]

How many reserves today have acid mesh? A rig can be repacked today, this evening thrown in a pool and dried out. and jumped. A rigger can not control how a rig is handled after leaving the loft. Wear is induced at every repack. If Pd says the reserve is ok @ 12 months, I live less than 3 miles from the dz. Its stored in ac. I take care of my stuff. I don't see any reason to have a rig repacked less than 12 months

[chuckakers 425]

bodypilot90

How many reserves today have acid mesh? A rig can be repacked today, this evening thrown in a pool and dried out. and jumped. A rigger can not control how a rig is handled after leaving the loft. Wear is induced at every repack. If Pd says the reserve is ok @ 12 months, I live less than 3 miles from the dz. Its stored in ac. I take care of my stuff. I don't see any reason to have a rig repacked less than 12 months

Acid mesh was just an example of the infinite possibilities. And your comment about a rigger not being able to control how a rig is handled after it leaves the loft makes my point for me. Any number of things can happen to the rig in the field. If it does come into contact with something that can degrade the fabric, the longer it goes before it is discovered the more it can degrade the fabric. Wait long enough (a year??) and it may be so weak it will fail.

If it's ok to wait a year, why not 2 or even 3 years???

If we want to have long repackage cycles., I suggest we look into truly sealed systems like some used in ejection seats. Hermetically sealed rigs have a long safe shelf life because nothing can come into contact with the fabric.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[riggerrob 643]

chuckakers

***How many reserves today have acid mesh? A rig can be repacked today, this evening thrown in a pool and dried out. and jumped. A rigger can not control how a rig is handled after leaving the loft. Wear is induced at every repack. If Pd says the reserve is ok @ 12 months, I live less than 3 miles from the dz. Its stored in ac. I take care of my stuff. I don't see any reason to have a rig repacked less than 12 months

Acid mesh was just an example of the infinite possibilities. And your comment about a rigger not being able to control how a rig is handled after it leaves the loft makes my point for me. Any number of things can happen to the rig in the field. If it does come into contact with something that can degrade the fabric, the longer it goes before it is discovered the more it can degrade the fabric. Wait long enough (a year??) and it may be so weak it will fail.

If it's ok to wait a year, why not 2 or even 3 years???

If we want to have long repackage cycles., I suggest we look into truly sealed systems like some used in ejection seats. Hermetically sealed rigs have a long safe shelf life because nothing can come into contact with the fabric.

..............................................................................

Then we only have to worry about skydivers who land too close to barbed wire fences, drag their canopies back to the packing area, leave them laying out in the sun, never untwist brake lines, never replace closing loops, etc.
Hah!
Hah!
At some point, individual skydivers need to take responsibility for their own lives/gear.

[chuckakers 425]

riggerrob

******How many reserves today have acid mesh? A rig can be repacked today, this evening thrown in a pool and dried out. and jumped. A rigger can not control how a rig is handled after leaving the loft. Wear is induced at every repack. If Pd says the reserve is ok @ 12 months, I live less than 3 miles from the dz. Its stored in ac. I take care of my stuff. I don't see any reason to have a rig repacked less than 12 months

Acid mesh was just an example of the infinite possibilities. And your comment about a rigger not being able to control how a rig is handled after it leaves the loft makes my point for me. Any number of things can happen to the rig in the field. If it does come into contact with something that can degrade the fabric, the longer it goes before it is discovered the more it can degrade the fabric. Wait long enough (a year??) and it may be so weak it will fail.

If it's ok to wait a year, why not 2 or even 3 years???

If we want to have long repackage cycles., I suggest we look into truly sealed systems like some used in ejection seats. Hermetically sealed rigs have a long safe shelf life because nothing can come into contact with the fabric.

..............................................................................

Then we only have to worry about skydivers who land too close to barbed wire fences, drag their canopies back to the packing area, leave them laying out in the sun, never untwist brake lines, never replace closing loops, etc.
Hah!
Hah!
At some point, individual skydivers need to take responsibility for their own lives/gear.

Not sure what untwisting brake lines has to do with a conversation about reserve repack cycles. If you're talking about reserves I would certainly hope that would be checked by the rigger as the "I" of "I&R".

You never answered my question. How long would be too long for you concerning repack cycles?

Here's another potential problem with long cycles. I once had the tiniest of burs on a reserve flap grommet that was slowly eating away at the reserve closing loop. As I bent over to tighten my legstraps on the ground (very near the end of the cycle) the loop blew and the reserve p/c launched as advertised. Had that happened 20 minutes later while bent over to climb out of the Cessna we were jumping it could have been very messy.

Now imagine if that was happening to your rig but at a slower rate. It might hold for a 90 or 180-day cycle and get caught during an I&R, but maybe not for a year long cycle.

How do you plan to insure that invisible wear components like your reserve closing loop aren't a problem during your year-long cycle?

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[riggerrob 643]

When I referred to "untwisting brake lines", I meant main brake lines. It was really a sarcastic comment about skydivers who do ZERO maintenance on their own gear and prefer to "leave all maintenance to their rigger."

Hmmm!
Come to think of it, zero main maintenance would REDUCE the reserve repack cycle to three or four or five per year.

[chuckakers 425]

riggerrob

When I referred to "untwisting brake lines", I meant main brake lines. It was really a sarcastic comment about skydivers who do ZERO maintenance on their own gear and prefer to "leave all maintenance to their rigger."

Hmmm!
Come to think of it, zero main maintenance would REDUCE the reserve repack cycle to three or four or five per year.

If you get around to actually discussing the issue at hand, I'd appreciate you addressing my very valid questions.

If you're just here to talk crap, don't bother. I'm busy stamping out 40-ways for next weekend.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[riggerrob 643]

Aparrently my sarcastic sense of humor does not transmit well over the interweb.
Hah!
Hah!

[chuckakers 425]

riggerrob

Aparrently my sarcastic sense of humor does not transmit well over the interweb.
Hah!
Hah!

Actually it does, but you previously made some serious comments and now don't seem interested in defending them.

Sarcasm isn't a valid defense to a challenge for you to support your position.

What's it going to be? Are you prepared to prop up your previous statements or do you cave? Your call.

Don't waste out time. Your comedy isn't that good.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[feuergnom 28]

actually Rob has proven long enough that he knows what he's talking about... and I think that he just doesn't want get get in yet another angry arguement with you
and I guess that is one of the problems in general: anytime I read one of your posts the message - no matter if valid, wellthought, totally true or else - is completely lost because of the tone of your posts.
Note: this is not intended as an attack, just an observation from more than 10 years on these forums. and one of the reasons I don't post very often anymore...

The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle

dudeist skydiver # 666

[chuckakers 425]

feuergnom

actually Rob has proven long enough that he knows what he's talking about... and I think that he just doesn't want get get in yet another angry arguement with you
and I guess that is one of the problems in general: anytime I read one of your posts the message - no matter if valid, wellthought, totally true or else - is completely lost because of the tone of your posts.
Note: this is not intended as an attack, just an observation from more than 10 years on these forums. and one of the reasons I don't post very often anymore...

Funny, Rob seems pretty comfortable jabbing and spewing, yet he doesn't want to actually have an honest debate on the issue at hand when I challenge his position with facts. As for my points being lost, we'll just have to disagree on that. My posts typically get replies - often insightful ones - so I guess my "tone" doesn't bother most folks as much as it does you.

I prefer not to whitewash my conversations for the pc crowd. There's enough of that bullshit without me playing the game too.

But thanks for making me feel special by making a rare post to help improve my web-side manner. Me and my tone really appreciate it.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[edmacdonald 0]

Chuck, if you re-read the thread, carefully, you'll probably realize RiggerRob was not "jabbing and spewing" anything. He made one witty comment, that I suspect most of us realized was sarcastic but supportive of the point you made, and then you jumped all over him. You may have assumed he was the the previous poster that seemed to get your ire up, or maybe you're just cranky.