JJohnson 0 #1 July 8, 2002 Well ladies and gentleman, we seem to have struck a chord. I have gotten people confirming their spiritual concepts and those denying that anything is out there. So to continue the muckraking I submit more of my drivel. I would never tell someone that ANY belief they have in ANY concept of God is wrong. Any type of spiritual belief should be a personal choice. I have related part of my history and how I came across my beliefs. (which is pretty basic: There is a God, whom I do not understand and when he/she/it wants me to do something, I'll know about it somehow. In the meantime do the best I can.) I have had many conversations, arguements, discussions with many religious/spiritual poeple: Buddhists, Mormons, Catholics, Baptsist missionaries...etc. Many of these people have accused me of trying to disprove their beliefs: creation/evolution, the Ark thing, the shroud of Turin...you name it. Some of these conversations got pretty ugly. The truth is I was never trying to find fault with their beliefs, I was looking for answers. I was looking for the right way to believe. None of these people have ever given me concrete proof of their version of God. But try as I might I could not disprove what they said either. Humankind to this day believes a lot of things that lack concrete proof, so why should a God be anyt different?. End result: Jeff knows nothing more than anyone else about a God. God knows the truth and he has not given the story to the National Enquirer yet. A few years ago, a devout atheist asked me to prove there was a God. In a brief moment of clarity I came up with this: If there is no God, in ANY form or concept, than the notion of humans having an eternal soul is not valid. My proposal was that this person should sell me their soul for $1.00. They make a buck for selling something they don't have and affirm their refusal of a God. Pretty cut and dry. To date yet, nobody has taken me up on this offer. And while this may not be proof of a God, it does make these proposed atheists admit they are really agnostics. And that my friends is a whole lot better than totally denying a God. So there is my offer to you atheists out there. Put up or shut up so to speak. Sell me your soul for a buck. If you can do this, you are truly an atheist and convinced of your non-belief. (And I applaud your committent, truly I do) Otherwise, you have some soul searching to do. If you want to sell me your soul, write out the following: I (state your real name) sell my soul to Jeff Johnson for the sum of $1.00, to do with as he sees fit. And then sign your name. Blood is not required, ink will work fine. JJ I am not trying to offend anyone, please understand. This topic came up and hit a nerve with me, so I responded to it.JJ "Call me Darth Balls" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #2 July 8, 2002 Dude....Don't do it!! I saw what can happen on that Simpson's episode. The doors at the Quickie Mart wouldn't even open for Bart!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JJohnson 0 #3 July 8, 2002 You just gotta love the Simpsons. JJJJ "Call me Darth Balls" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
favaks 0 #4 July 8, 2002 So what kind of discussion did you have with the Buddhists? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,107 #5 July 8, 2002 I do not believe I have an immortal soul. However, since you apparently believe that I have, and even appear to want it, it would certainly be worth much more than $1. I'd reckon an immortal soul would be pretty valuable, maybe worth about $100,000,000, even mine, and that's my price. Of course, even if I sold it to you I could give no proof of delivery, you would simply have to have faith. Kind of like land speculation... Offers? (cash only). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JJohnson 0 #6 July 8, 2002 Actually the Buddhists were pretty cool. One said that his religion was dependent on what country or enviroment he was in. Christian country, he was Christian, Muslim, he was Muslim. He said there many, many paths up a mountain but once you reach the top all the views are pretty much the same. He said he did not view God as a seperate being from our world, "on the outside looking in so to speak. But instead thought of God as our universe, part of everything and us a part of it. I came away from my brief exposure from Buddhism with the feeling that there is a balance to logic and emotion. Neither should rule your life, but they are equal. Nothing should be taken to seriously as it is all temporary, yet do your best as you are judged on it. I would not mind studying their beliefs a bit more. JJJJ "Call me Darth Balls" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildblue 7 #7 July 8, 2002 QuoteI do not believe I have an immortal soul. However, since you apparently believe that I have, and even appear to want it, it would certainly be worth much more than $1. I'd reckon an immortal soul would be pretty valuable, maybe worth about $100,000,000, even mine, and that's my price. You worked for Enron, didn't you?it's like incest - you're substituting convenience for quality Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JJohnson 0 #8 July 8, 2002 You are tap dancing amigo. Negotiations are not an option. Sell it to the Devil if you want top dollar, but that is obviously not an option either, as God does not exist, Satan can't either. That leaves me and my offer is a buck. Sell it for a buck, thats my offer. If you don't have it who cares what price you get? My beliefs are not the issue and what I want or do with your soul (or lack there of) is not important. Make a stand. Sell it for the buck and show me how convicted you are in your non-belief. Mine has no price, thought to selling it not even considerable. As for proof of delivery, I'll take the signed piece of paper. JJJJ "Call me Darth Balls" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #9 July 8, 2002 QuoteSell me your soul for a buck. If you can do this, you are truly an atheist and convinced of your non-belief. (And I applaud your committent, truly I do) Otherwise, you have some soul searching to do. Or maybe it's just a waste of time. You can have mine, freely. I hereby give you full control of my soul to do with as you wish. Don't feel like finding out your address to mail it, or ripping you off for $1 so there you go. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallingILweenie 0 #10 July 8, 2002 hey jeff, how bout posting the video of FallinMarc's pieing for his 100th from the weekend at hinckley in early may??? blue skies Tomas Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #11 July 8, 2002 So what happens if you sell your soul to 100,000 people at $1 each. Can you just sell shares of yuor soul? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JJohnson 0 #12 July 8, 2002 Thanks I guess, and congratulations. You are the first person to ever call me on that and as such you are the first real atheist I know. (who owes the beer on this one, you or me?) I'm not sure what to do with your soul now. JJJJ "Call me Darth Balls" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,107 #13 July 8, 2002 QuoteYou worked for Enron, didn't you No - Enron hid stuff and deceived their investors and workers: this is just a simple transaction with nothing concealed. Kind of like a speculator wanting to buy mineral rights to my otherwise worthless land because he is convinced there's a mother-lode of gold down there somewhere. Even if I disagree on the likelihood of there being any gold, I would be stupid not to hold out for a decent price. Now, if immortal souls existed, there's no doubt they would be very valuable items, more per ounce than gold, for sure. PS for $100,000,000 I'd even sign in blood and agree to donate 50% of it to worthy causes (like Planned Parenthood) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JJohnson 0 #14 July 8, 2002 I'll get on that, sorry I have not done it already. look for it soon. JJJJ "Call me Darth Balls" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Schroeder 0 #15 July 8, 2002 QuoteIf there is no God, in ANY form or concept, than the notion of humans having an eternal soul is not valid. Why is the notion of an eternal soul dependent on the supposed existence of God? Is it not possible to have a soul, and no god? Why not? I like your idea, but really, you're just assuming that souls only exist in concordance with a god. I can't see any clear logical reasons to make that leap... If I ventured in the slipstream; Between the via-ducts of your dreams.......could you find me? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #16 July 8, 2002 QuoteThanks I guess, and congratulations. You are the first person to ever call me on that and as such you are the first real atheist I know. Not entirely true. I just don't believe in souls. I lean heavily toward atheism but don't discount the possibility that there is some higher life form that is responsible for our existence. But when we die, we're worm food. Even if someone kick started the creation of humanity, I'm firmly convinced that every religion or belief in existence was conceived of by man with no basis in truth. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JJohnson 0 #17 July 8, 2002 So you are basically abstaining from making a committent on the pretense of value? Profit is your motivating factor here? And it has nothing to do with beliefs now? JJJJ "Call me Darth Balls" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
narcimund 0 #18 July 8, 2002 Would someone who believes they had a soul also believe they were capable of selling it to another? I ask because I'm confused why ANYONE would refuse the transaction. The atheist should take the dollar because there's no valuable loss, and the believer should take the dollar because it's a void contract. Of course both the atheist and the believer might both refuse the deal because it's more effort to mock up a fake transfer document and mail it away. But that's just a problem with the price. I say this because if I saw an offer of $1.00 for the invisible head of lettuce orbiting my body in the 5th dimension, I wouldn't lift a finger to follow through with the fake sale. A dollar isn't enough to get me to slow down, much less find paper, hand write a bill of sale, find an envelope, invest $0.37 in a stamp, find the address, etc. Maybe if the offer were $50 .... First Class Citizen Twice Over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JJohnson 0 #19 July 8, 2002 Interesting concept, please continue. I don't know why I equate an immortal soul to a God, just seemed right at that time. As I said I could be wrong. I'm always open to ideas. JJJJ "Call me Darth Balls" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JJohnson 0 #20 July 8, 2002 Someone who really believes they have an immortal soul would probably refuse the deal on general principal. Why take chances with something you never want to lose. As for the effort, you responded to this post for free, so obviously you can slow down, it is simply a matter of price. Tell you what, I'll take email offers. The point is that if you are truly a devout non-believer in a God what harm is there? Make a stand, and stand up for your belief. If you have a hesitation in this, just maybe you believe a bit more than you care to admit. The details are meaningless, and the exchange of cash for soul is not my issue. Many people will refuse to believe in a God on the outside. Yet will not stand behind it. My point was to see who was looking for debate and who really believes a God does not exist. So email me your soul, complete real name with your address and I'll mail you a buck. No effort on your part at all. But if any part of that bothers you, than you must admit that maybe, just maybe you do have an immortal soul and that a God may exist. JJJJ "Call me Darth Balls" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Schroeder 0 #21 July 8, 2002 What I was trying to say was, IF a person can stand up and say that we exist without a God, then what reason is there for us not to postulate the possiblity of a soul, also existing without a god? When dead we may have soul-superiors, and souls that seem more powerful than others, but in all the evidence I've ever come across, it suggests more that souls exist rather than god. It's a human habit to attribute the soul to god, but is it a logical one? I don't think I've heard a good argument either way so far. Would I sell you my soul? If I had one, I still wouldn't think it meant there was a god or not. But even in the absense of god, no, I wouldn't sell it to you, because I'd much rather take care of my soul myself. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JJohnson 0 #22 July 8, 2002 So basically you are an agnostic? You acknowledge there could be something, but are witholding your vote until better evidence is in? Thats a good start. JJJJ "Call me Darth Balls" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Schroeder 0 #23 July 8, 2002 "Start" suggests a path I don't appreciate being implied to be upon. In my questioning of your logic, I've been seeking your answers; so if you have any, or the supporting logic, please share as I have, so I can better understand where you're coming from. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JJohnson 0 #24 July 8, 2002 Well, if acknowledge the possibility of a higher life form, who for lack of better terminology we can call a God, then that makes you an agnostic. If you can deal with that, then you can also slide by that maybe this God gave you a soul. Your body may be worm food, but just maybe your soul has another purpose. As I only take souls from atheists, I give you yours back, at no charge, to do with as you choose. Wishing you nothing but good things. JJJJ "Call me Darth Balls" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Schroeder 0 #25 July 8, 2002 That's alot of maybes... If I ventured in the slipstream; Between the via-ducts of your dreams.......could you find me? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
