Appeasing atheists

[billvon 2,991]

>It's wrong because 6 year olds don't have the same understanding
> of what they must do compared with what they may refuse, as you
> do and I do.

You've said that before and I understand your line of reasoning. The question is - if that's the case, is it just as wrong to use the official "government coercion" of the school to teach them christmas songs that mention santa, reindeer, gift giving, christmas trees, and all the other traditions that have grown up around the christian holiday of christmas? How do you reconcile a government that has absolutely no association with any religion - but gives them two weeks off in celebration of christmas? Are words more important than actions here?

>The simple fact is, the two words "under God" simply don't belong
> there; they are a literary and constitutional wart.

I agree. We just disagree in our remedies. There are a heck of a lot of references to god in all manner of official goverment documents, speeches, practices, songs, traditions etc and purging them is simply not worth it. It is far better to let each person do what he wants, rather than try to arrange things so no one sees any reference to religion anywhere in government.

>I'm sorry that you can't tell the difference between dealing with those
> who collaborated with an invading, occupying, enemy army (usually
> called "traitors" or "quislings")

I'd recommend doing some research on that period of time in Norway's history. Many traitors were thrown in prison (justly.) A great many more were simply suspected of being "Nazi sympathizers." These were people who were critical of the Norwegian government and/or had associations with the Nazi party, but were not in the Nazi party, and did not take part in any sabotage, spying, or other wartime activity. They were essentially guilty unless they could prove themselves innocent, which was usually impossible. Even a suggestion of nazi leanings could get one blacklisted and arrested.

Sound familiar?

[pilotdave 0]

Are children taught christmas songs in public schools? I didn't think so. If they are, I'm opposed to that far more than "under god" in the pledge.

Dave

[AggieDave 6]

We sang secular Christmas songs in school, like Jingle Bells, Frosty the Pimp, etc

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Zenister 0]

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> The question is - if that's the case, is it just as wrong to use the official "government coercion" of the school to teach them christmas songs that mention santa, reindeer, gift giving, christmas trees, and all the other traditions that have grown up around the christian holiday of christmas? How do you reconcile a government that has absolutely no association with any religion - but gives them two weeks off in celebration of christmas? Are words more important than actions here?

actually arent quite a few christmas rituals "borrowed" from the pagan holiday of Yule that was co-oped by the christians? (decorating trees, gift giving, stockings etc.

(along with easter and egg hunting I believe as well)

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[billvon 2,991]

>Are children taught christmas songs in public schools?

Almost universally. Try to get through a christmas at a public school without having a christmas (or, if they are PC, holiday) concert or chorus or play. See if you can find a public elementary school without paper christmas trees, lights, etc as christmas rolls around.

[jtval 0]

just wanted to say high again

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[Iflyme 0]

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I consider statements like "what a dick you are" to be personal attacks...

Ya, but what if he's correct...?

[n2skdvn 0]

I know what this thread needs................BOOBIES!!!!!!!!!
SMILE

if my calculations are correct SLINKY + ESCULATOR = EVERLASTING FUN
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[kallend 2,026]

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Are children taught christmas songs in public schools? I didn't think so. If they
are, I'm opposed to that far more than "under god" in the pledge.

My kids sang both Christmas and Hannukah songs in public school - equal opportunity violations as far as I'm concerned.

When I was a kid in England we sang Christmas songs in public school, but in the UK there's no pretence about separation of church and state - there is an established church.

I guess I find the hypocracy more troubling than the action.

[scottbre 0]

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I guess I find the hypocracy more troubling than the action.

What I find troubling is that someone who more than likely posts regularly on these forums feels that they have to hide their identity by registering a new name (agitator), so that they won't have to be held responsible for what they say. Talk about cowardly.

"Your mother's full of stupidjuice!"
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[freeflir29 0]

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That's why the US needs the protection of the Constitution

That piece of paper did a lot for the Indians and Asians in this country........

[agitator 0]

ok, let me clarify.
I did NOT mean it as a joke.
"USA - love it or leave it" has always been one of the more asinine and white trash-ish attitudes around, one that is distinctly un-American.
However, I will not engage in personal attacks anymore on people engaging in free speech, rather I will merely comment on the underlying attitude as I have done in the above paragraph.
However, I do stand by MY attitude that far more harm than good has come out of organized (and un-organized) religion.
Crusades, Inquisitions (are those two the same thing, BTW?), India, Pakistan, Israel, Palestine. Can't think of any more but I am sure others can chime in. Most of the people killed in the above have been whacked in the name of religion.
Not to mention all the whackos in this country who have 10,000 kids and then drown them all, because dog, er, god told them to be fruitful. OK, it was only one person and only like 4-5 kids but what the heck, you get my point.
However, this whole thread is entirely out of place in this forum so I will shut the hell up on the subject.

[chickenhawk420 0]

No offence but you sound like me when i was ten, i mean "im an athiest." and "don't beleive in hell-or heaven" comes into its own. At school if you rely didn't beleive in gods teaching why go along with reciting crap. Atleast i stood up for my right to excersise my non beleif in higher deities and refuse to say it, atleast i didn't just go along with it coz everyone else was saying those words. And no i have no problem in saying it ("do you swear on almighty god thats its the truth...blah...blah...baa" - of course i do i shudder what would happen to me if i lied to god . But i disagree with you on the papal god alienieating others.

Oh, but BTW the blood of americans rehtoric.... well i leave it there.

Basicly i really don't give a shit, coz its never affected me one way or the other. Keep it loose it don't care.

[chickenhawk420 0]

"Frosty the pimp"

don't forget "Hoe, hoe, hoe" and "jingle me bells"

[SpeedRacer 1]

Hello everyone, I'm back! I like the new forum setup.

re. the topic. I'm Cahtolic, but I grew up in a neighborhood that was half Jewish. In elementary school some of the songs we sang in music class were Jewish songs. Didn't bother my ass. Of course, that was a few years ago, before it became fashionable for everyone to run around looking for new & creative ways to complain about being Victims of Oppression!!

Here's something else. Even though I believe in God, I agree with the idea that they shouldn't have forced or teacher-led group prayer in school. But why is the ACLU bitching about having the "Moment of Silence" thing during homeroom?? What could be a better compromise than that? A couple of minutes where the kids can either pray or just chill/meditate, etc.

For the life of me I can't see why the ACLU should object to what I see as a reasonable and intelligent compromise. What's the harm in a Moment of Silence??

Speed Racer
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