Attitudes toward AADs

[AggieDave 6]

Lately I've found some attitudes towards AADs interesting and I wanted some other opinions. I don't jump with a Cypress, mainly because I can't afford one, but once I can, I'm buying one. I think they're very useful, but a friend of mine refused to jump this weekend because his rig was in the shop and although I told him he could jump my rig and I'd even pack for free, he refused due to the lack of a Cypress. He said if he can't jump with a Cypress, he's not jumping at all. That attitude sort of baffled me, sure they're great, but why would someone have that sort of attitude. He was going to do solo jumps anyways, not trying to do a big-way headdown or anything.

Anyone else like that, no Cypress no jumping? If so, why? I'm just curious.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[PhreeZone 20]

Do a search on this one... its been talked about and beat to death more times then I can count...

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[dmddave 0]

I have a Cypres on my rig and definitely feel more comfortable with it but I still plan on jumping it when the Cypres goes in for service.
Incidentally one of the senior jumpers at my dz, when asked about wearing a Cypres said he hasn't needed one in 41 years and doesn't plan on starting now.

[AggieDave 6]

Well, the advantages vs. disadvantages have been, I was curious about people's personal attitudes towards them, specifically those who share the same opinion as my friend. I just wanted to hear their reasons. That's differnet then what's been discussed before.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Jimbo 0]

What the hell. This one is always fun.

Me? I jump with a Cypres, I jump like it's not there, I will jump without a Cypres and do on occasion.

Your friend sounds scary. Sorry.

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[freeatlast 0]

I have the no cypres, no jump attitude too ...

As a newbie I was trained on rigs with cypres, I have always jumped a rig with a cypres and just don't see the point in taking the extra risk in jumping without. I know that most of my friends also are of the same opinion in fact almost all my friends jump with cypres.
Having said all that, I am in the fortunate situation of having a rig with a cypres. I know it cost a fair amount but what price your life ???
If I didn't have one and would have to wait months in order to buy one (without jumping) I guess I'd have to think long and hard about it.

It's a very interesting point though ....

[AndyMan 7]

I've never jumpe without an AAD.... I don't think I ever would.

After all, I was willing to shell out the $1000 to buy one. Why would I spend that much money and not use it?

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[hobbes4star 0]

bill wrote about this in safty and training that was pretty good point. i looked for it but i can't find it.
Personaly i don't care if i have one i have one if i don't i don't. granted they are a great tool, but i don't rely on any computer or machine to save my life. just my 0.02

if fun were easy it wouldn't be worth having, right?

[MarkM 0]

You jump without a Cypres, but would you jump without a reserve?

It's just a matter of safety level vs what each individual is comfortable with.

Some people BASE while others won't leave the plane without a Cypres.

[JJohnson 0]

Great device. I got one on my Racer, not on my VooDoo. Soon as I can afford it, I'll have another. but it don't stop me from jumping.
JJ

JJ

"Call me Darth Balls"

[weid14 0]

I jump one (actaully one in each rig) because I do hard core 4way and at times i get a knee in the back of the head or something similar. I've gotten hit hard enough to see stars (ok, I admit that's when were were starting out with all this vertical stuff, but I still get whacked now and again -- sucks being the "under" guy at times )

[PLFKING 4]

I don't jump with one. I also don't use an RSL, or even a PC with a kill line. Granted, these are all good things to have in certain situations, but I prefer to stick with the straight mechanical aspect of the sport. Again, these all have their place in skydiving (and it's great if you choose to use them) but to me they just present something else that can become a problem in certain situations. Just a personal choice I've debated with myself many times.

The only reason I would use an AAD would be if I was seriously into RW bigways or freeflying, with their added liklihood of collision.


Don

[freeflir29 0]

I remember saying that when I was a student. It lasted till about jump 20 or so when the club had a PD 190 in a container that was Cypres free. I jumped it and lived. Got right over my fear. Now 200 and some jumps later....I really want one. Just as a safety belt in case. Haven't coughed up the cash for one yet though.

[BMFin 0]

but would anyone have enough balls to jump with an FXC !!! ???

[IMGR2 0]

I don't mean to go this direction but to get my point across, I must.

Three years ago(July 18th) my best friend died and a Cypress could have stopped it, ever since that day I have never been the same.
I don't force my opinion on anyone else but trust me when I say that no matter who you are, there will be someone that misses you very much when you die. I just hope its not from you not getting your reserve out.

in memory AD-78

Put it in perspective,
Bryan S. Moffett

[weid14 0]

my first 50 jumps or so were on an FXC 1200 -- hey anyone got a quarter to reset this altitude??

[MarkM 0]

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but would anyone have enough balls to jump with an FXC !!! ???

Jumps 2-10.

I really wish the BSRs had said "students must jump with a GOOD AAD".

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I don't jump with one. I also don't use an RSL, or even a PC with a kill line.

Did I miss a meeting or something? I thought kill line PCs were a performance device, but it seems like sometime over the last year or so they've turned into safety feature.

[weid14 0]

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? I thought kill line PCs were a performance device, but it seems like sometime over the last year or so they've turned into safety feature.

depending on the size canopy you jump and the wing loading, I'd say, yes, there could be a safety issue along with the performance necessity (hey, it may be a sretch but something worth considering). (if a bungy PC inflated and distored a highly loaded canopy it could have an adverse reaction on landing...)

[PhillyKev 0]

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I thought kill line PCs were a performance device, but it seems like sometime over the last year or so they've turned into safety feature.

Well, I guess in comparison to a bungee collapsible it would be considered a safety device. But overall, it's probably safer to have non-collapsible.

I won't jump without an AAD unless it's a jump that requires that it's off (wild ride in a stearman, etc.) As was stated above, if I think it's important enough to spend $1000 on, then I'm going to use it. I ignore the fact that it's there and don't rely on it by any means, but, it's that one time that you don't have it when you need it. When I have to send my cypress in for service, I'll just take that opportunity to demo some cypress equipped gear.

[tigra 0]

This past Saturday a friend of mine was doing a 10 way team practice jump. He got slammed into the door of the otter, hard enough to knock him out, even with his full face helmet. He was not conscious when he left the plane, but did come to seconds later, deployed his main and managed to land it even though he was dazed and in pain. He has no cypres, and a few more seconds would have been the end for him. One of the first things he did after he landed (and we determined he was battered but basicly OK) was look into buying a cypres.

Yes, I jump a cypres. I would turn it off for a low hop and pop (2500 feet or less), and depending on the type of jump I was doing, I might be comfortable jumping a rig without one. (I'd take it out if I was crazy enough to swoop the pond, for instance!) I do mostly RW, and I've seen my share of "combat skydiving", I know anything can happen and I am more comfortable with a cypres than without one.

[Deuce 1]

I got my first rig with all the safety stuff I could get. Big risers, RSL, Cypress. I had to send it back to the factory for some service and a good friend lent me his second rig. I was really fired up that I had a buddy that would lend me something so valuable. I have to admit, when I did that first gear check on it and it didn't have an AAD, I seriously thought about skipping jumping that weekend. I told my group that I was jumping without a cypress, and they had damn well better pull my handle if they freaking knocked me out. My next goal is to get a second rig with a cypress so I don't have to do that again. If I manage to crater myself I don't want it to be because I got miserly on gear.

[lummy 4]

All I have to add to this thread is that when I bought my rig, it didn't have a cypress. I jumped without one for about 10 jumps and this may be wrong, but I felt a bit more nervous and was more cautious about what I was doing on those jumps. I realize that I shouldn't rely on one, but I feel safer knowing that one is there

I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. eat sushi, get smoochieTTK#1

[skybytch 273]

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a Cypress could have stopped it

Nine years ago the man who taught me to jump went in on a tandem; as only the drogue was out and no other handles were pulled, a Cypres could have saved him and his student (shortly thereafter, Cypres' were made mandatory by the rig manufacturer). I know of at least 5 people who quit jumping due to his death and 3 more who promptly went out and bought Cypres'. I didn't; I was "raised" by this old timer who didn't trust AAD's and even though I was saddened by his death it did not make me less sure of my own ability to handle whatever shit might happen to me.

Seven years ago a photographer friend of mine went in after cutting away from a malfunctioning main; he didn't get the reserve out, a Cypres could have saved him too. He'd planned to replace the whole rig and put a Cypres in the new one "the next time this main mals". Again, I was saddened by his death, but it didn't cause me to run out and buy a Cypres.

I finally put one on my rig in March of this year (thanks Bill!). I've also added an RSL to my rig. Would I jump without either one? Yes - over 600 of my jumps have been on rigs that had neither. I've been jumping long enough and lost enough friends over the years that I really do know the risks I'm taking, and I'm comfortable with those risks.

Something to remember about AAD's - while in many cases having one (turned on) could have saved a life; in other cases having one could have contributed to injuries or deaths. And in many of the injuries and deaths we've seen this year alone, a Cypres wouldn't have done anything - the jumper was injured or killed while flying a perfectly good main canopy.

Having a Cypres does not make a person a safe skydiver, nor does it make this sport safe. There are many ways to die skydiving; the Cypres, while a wonderful little machine, can only save you in a couple of situations, and in some situations it can make things worse, not better. Choose to use one if you want, but be realistic about it. Know that you are potentially adding other risks to your jumping by having it; decide for yourself if those risks are worth the potential "reward" of surviving should you lose altitude awareness or be knocked unconcious someday.

[bbarnhouse 0]

well ok then here's my .02
Airspeed uses them, Freeflight uses them, Skysurf etc........and I do as well. Although not required, U.S.P.A Competition Manual recommends the use of functioning and armed AAD's by all Artistic Events team members........I understand the risk associated with flying with one.....but I think my odds of survival are better with than without should I see stars where there aint supposed to be any!!
Cheers

[skymama 37]

If I didn't have a rig without a Cypres, I probably wouldn't jump. But, that's just me. I don't drive in a car without a seat belt on either. I may never have to use either item, but it just makes me feel better to know they are there, just in case. And, you know Murphy's Law...the one time I jump without an AAD is going to be the time when I need one!

She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man,
because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon