quick thought

[cyberskydive 0]

Everyone keeps saying, "man this has been a bad year, or, man this has been a bad last few months"
well, why are we losing so many of our friends?
Does it simply seem that way because we hear of so many on the internet? Would we even know about alot of them if we werent online? I dont know the numbers etc but , as terrible as it is, is this above average?
Are there people out there who "slide" through thier training and buy the super whiz-bang canopy, start freeflying and swooping before they can even crawl? the "I wanna be cool syndrome?"
Say something to them, make them understand. Alot of the time when I run across this type of scenario most people are quick to make a joke, quick to make crude statements like "man that dude is gonna bite it one day" but rarely have I seen anyone actually pull that person aside and say "hey man, theres plenty of time for you to be cool (like when your the age of scotty carbone or Bill Booth and still jumpin after all these years type cool).............
Of course accidents are accidents, but one thing we've proved time and time again is that most accidents are preventable. We need to learn as much as we can from every situation and pass that information on to others. To often younger jumpers see someone do something like swoop, freefly, or joke about going low without realizing that the folks they see doing these things probably have been jumping for a long while, have hundreds or thousands of jumps and have taken a long time and alot of work to get where they are.
Its the folks in a spot of authority that can teach young jumpers the most. Alot of the time I've seen this responsibility all put on the dzo, or staff JM's etc, but we all can clearly do something.
Have the basics been "pushed aside" while we teach new cool stuff in some of our student programs? How many of you really feel comfortable spotting (on your own), or landing in someones backyard with your canopy? Do you know the canopies stall point? Can you hook up you 3 rings, do a line check, or even pack for that matter? Do you even know your pilot?
anyway theres much more to be said I guess, anyone care to add to?
all we can do is try......right?
.....there is no spoon
--------------------
My website

[hooked 0]

Bravo! Well said.
J

[nacmacfeegle 0]

"Does it simply seem that way because we hear of so many on the internet? "
I think this is the case, I hope and pray, nay believe, the sport is actually getting safer, but more people are participating, therefore the incidence of accidents is increasing.
""I wanna be cool syndrome?"
Will always exist, IMHO.
"Its the folks in a spot of authority that can teach young jumpers the most. "
Absolutely, it is incumbent on us all (as cool people---I hope) to look out for our brothers and sisters.
'Safe is cool'
A holy grail of an accident free year should be our goal, its a tough one I know, but it is achievable if we all play our part. I've seen accidents in my (high risk) industry reduced to infinitessimally small numbers through years of hammering home 'Target Zero' type safety campaigns.....I have seen offshore construction go from a culture of 'get the job done no matter what' to 'no job is so important that we can't do it safely'.
That said, a lot of the attraction of this sport is the inherent 'risk taking'. We must always temper our safety attitudes with a desire to have fun, and to many, risk taking and acceptance is part of the fun.
Also the freedom from rules plays a large part in my enjoyment of the aerial playround, we don't want to be swamped by rules and regulations, hard and fast or implied....
Excellent post though Cyber....How is my wee pal Ann healing? I hope you are taking good care of her....
Cya
D
GR# 37
Remember how lucky you are to see and touch the sky; the blind may only dream.

[Remster 30]

Quote

A holy grail of an accident free year should be our goal, its a tough one I know, but it is achievable if we all play our part. I've seen accidents in my (high risk) industry reduced to infinitessimally small numbers through years of hammering home 'Target Zero' type safety campaigns.....I have seen offshore construction go from a culture of 'get the job done no matter what' to 'no job is so important that we can't do it safely'.

Nac, I also come form a high risk industry (explosives), but I really dont think the parrallel can be drawn.
In work, if the coorp has decided that 0 incident is the goal, then every part of the work will revolve around getting rid of risks at the source. If you cant, then add protective devices to reduce the risk, but then the risk will always stay there.
I do not think this is feasable in our sport. Our sport is by its nature a risk. If you want to remove that risk, stay on the ground.
Yes, we can reduce it and get the numbers of deaths down, but 0 target.... I dont think its feasable year after year after year... never mind 0 target on injuries....
Remster
Muff 914

[Zennie 0]

Very good points Dan.
I do think that part of it is the fact that information spreads so much more quickly on the internet. Plus a couple of these have been local incidents, so it hits a bit closer to home. But this does seem to be a "hook in" year for some reason. Last year was just plain bizzarre stuff.
Part of the problem, I think, is even knowing when you have "graduated" from newbie to someone qualified to offer your $0.02 to a jumper. I have my "D". I have over 300 jumps. I like to do swoop landings. But I wouldn't even dream of calling myself qualified to offer anything except the most rudimentary advice to someone (i.e. "How to begin learning sitflying", etc.). And I do actively seek out advice, particularly on canopy flight issues, from people I trust and respect.
So I guess as sort of a follow-up question. When should one "step-up" to fill a more active role in mentoring beginners? When should one no longer be shy about actively walking up to newer jumpers and flagging a problem? For that matter, when does one stop being a "newbie" and start being "experienced". I know my "D" says I'm a "Master" skydiver, but I still feel like a newbie.
Maybe it's because I know what I don't know.
"Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

[AndyMan 7]

Quote

I do think that part of it is the fact that information spreads so much more quickly on the internet.

Unfortunately, I STRONGLY disagree.
Information spread just as quickly last year, and there weren't nearly as many accidents.
Actually, information spread QUICKER last year because we had an excelent resource available, Barry's fatalities page ran the numbers for us on a whim. We don't have that available, because Barry seems to be neglecting it, and nobody is stepping up to replace it.
I actually don't know how many we've lost this year. I suspect it's WAY higher then this time last year. This concerns me.
If (hopefully) I'm wrong, and we're actually NOT losing more then last year, the explanation for this cold pit of sorrow I feel in my stomach every weekend is NOT that "information is spreading quicker", but rather "the lack of concrete information about these incidents is making me fear the worst."
_Am
ICQ: 5578907
MSN Messenger: andrewdmetcalfe at hotmail dot com
AIM: andrewdmetcalfe
Yahoo IM: ametcalf_1999

[nacmacfeegle 0]

Remster, I think you may be confusing risk with hazard, hazard is the consequence of things going wrong, risk is the probablity that the hazard will be realised.
"If you cant, then add protective devices to reduce the risk, but then the risk will always stay there. "
I would change that second 'risk' to 'hazard'
I would correct myself by saying skydiving is hazardous, just like driving round with 20 gallons of gasoline under your butt is hazardous, but we can provide mitigation by managing the risk.
The best forms of mitigation against our 'hazards' would be effective training, equipment quality, and personal skills.
The hazards are always present but we manage them effectively...I hope...thus reducing risk.
I agree with you, there will always be what we call 'residual risk', but in terms of risk assessment that actual number should be as low as is reasonably practical.
I like to think skydivers are not 'risk takers' but more like 'hazard managers'.......Therefore I still don't see we can't have a goal, or aim for zero deaths.
Mind you, we would probably have to stay at home, in the dark with the doors locked, and power isolated.....What a dull life that would be indeed Good discussion though.....
Cya
D
GR# 37
Remember how lucky you are to see and touch the sky; the blind may only dream.

[Iflyme 0]

Well said, Cyber.
I know in my parts, there seems to have been an increase in the number of malfunctions and accidents... keep in mind, there is a difference between "accidents" and "foolishness" that leads to injury. When Joe Dickhead burns in doing something stupid under a tiny canopy, that ain't no accident...
"There's nothing new under the sun"

[skydiventom 0]

So true... I know of 3 times low time jumpers cut away from perfectly good canopies at low altitude. Who knows what they were thinking. I know it was while after I was jumping that I realized that the cut away at altitude would save my life and a cut away at low altitude would end it.
Honest, it wasn't me.....

[rgoper 0]

we all know our sport is growing. there's no question about it. i don't like the casualty figures myself, if it's just one, it's too many.
how do we stop this? easy, training. if you want to make a difference, take a USPA coach's course, or an AFF or AFP course. we can make a difference by training alone, with emphasis on safety. it's easy to sit back and wonder, get involved, make a difference, it might, and probably will save a life. just when you think you know a little something, you find out you really don't know near as much as you thought you did. write an introductory outline for a tandem class, or an USPA AFP or AFF class. purchase a copy of the USPA IRM. then, you will see what i mean. i've been taking a lot of stuff for granted, and the more i learn, the more i've been seeing in retrospect i didn't know jack the whole time. this is what's getting our brother's and sister's, lack of knowlege.
please choose to make a difference, take a safety class, a first aid class, coach's course, something, anything. take care, be safe, "check your handles" before exiting! Richard
"Gravity Is My Friend"

[Sebazz1 2]

It is hard to tell what's going on. It is not just newbies getting hurt but very experienced jumpers as well. Are there more injuries this year than last year at the same time? I don't know. Just spread the patience and lets not get complacent. I actually approached and congratulated two people who came straight in under canopy and had tipee toe landings. They smiled at me.I know people will get hurt even myself possibly. I think what worries me the most is the affect these injuries might have on our ability to self police our sport......
Some days are harder than others.........
Sebazz........

[Dumpster 0]

I must also say "well said"
As a newbie myself I am concerned with the current events-
I can look back at my recent training and see many shortcomings- (hindsight is 20/20) both on my own behalf and the the individuals doing the training, coaching, etc-
If I could ask one thing of all the experienced jumpers out there, who are also concerned with the numbers who have been injured or killed--
Please set an example for us newbies, and try not to be too cool to jump with a low-timer-
Tell us if you notice we have a tendancy to flare a little too late-
Make pin checks a cool thing-
And I could make this list very long, I think we all get the picture-
Good Blue stuff to everyone!
-Dumpster

[skycat 0]

Ok I did a quick little search so this # is not written in stone, but so far this year there have been 11 fatalities. The thing is 6 of them were last month.

[freeflir29 0]

I always say Pull low, hook low, and always take it downwind!!!!!! or the standard Monkey phrase...Go Fast, Take Chances, and for God's sake don't wear a helmet!
People like to push the envelope. Many of them not qualified to do so. Stupidity kills.
"Here I come to save the BOOBIES!"

[jceman 1]

Quote

always say Pull low, hook low, and always take it downwind!!!!!! or the standard Monkey phrase...Go Fast, Take Chances, and for God's sake don't wear a helmet!

I prefer "Go fast, take chances, and date your rigger's wife"!