Really, how important is water training?

[jaybwise 0]

I was in Army up until 2003 stationed in Hawaii and was part of the battalion scout team. being in that platoon we had extensive training in water survival, lot of swimming with all gear on, getting out of our gear in the water, swimming down away from the surface and then out away from your gear before sufacing, ect.....all good stuff.

MY POINT.

The instructor teaching my water training course was busy with tandems at the time of the training and called on someone else to instruct for him. as I was waiting to take the course he's telling his replacment (who had never taught this course) "all you have to do is put them in a harness, push them in a pool and let them swim out of it and your done."

WTF.....I was interested in learning somthing new that day that could potentally save my life, after hearing that I had a strong feeling I was waisting my time and money.

If that is as serious as Water Training is then it shouldn't be required by the U.S.P.A. to get your B license.

[wildfan75 1]

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... I had a strong feeling I was waisting my time and money.

They made you pay for water training?

[jaybwise 0]

yep

[pilotdave 0]

Water training is only as good as the instruction you get. I've heard of people doing it in a 6-inch deep kiddie pool with a 6-pack of beer. Mine was taught by a golden knight that had done live water landings (in modern gear) and taught from the SIM and first hand experience. The getting wet part seems less important than the briefing... at least for people that aren't afraid of the water. But GOOD water training definitely isn't a waste of time.

Dave

[ChrisL 2]

One thing you may not have experienced in your previous training is having a lot of square feet of wet nylon on top of you in the water.

In my water training you jump in the pool wearing the gear while they are holding the canopy. Once you are in the water they throw the canopy on top of you.

Important thing here being to loosen all the straps and then swim DOWN and out of the harness and out from under the canopy and lines before coming back up or you will become entangled and maybe drown.

Hopefully this was covered in your course since its one of the main points.

__

My mighty steed

[jaybwise 0]

Exactly, I'm not saying that my time in the army should take the place of Skydiving Water Training, I was actually looking forward to it.

but if I'm going to have to pay money then I would like to be able to take something more away from the training.

[councilman24 37]

This wasn't adequate good training. I'd take your complaint to the person or DZ you paid.

One of the things I used to do, haven't done training in awhile, is also make them get out of their jumpsuit (one of mine that was relatively baggy). Tight modern jumpsuits may not be necessary to remove. What the first person would invariably do is unzip the suit, undo the wrist cuffs, take it off it off forgetting the ankle velcro. Then they'd end up with the suit inside out, hanging from their ankles and not be able to get to the velcro no under the suit. I almost had to save a couple of people.

Also, everyone but the first person got a wet parachute over their head. This is really worst case. But the goal and the key was for people to experience being in the water with a parachute and realizing that it doesn't have to be a big deal.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[skr 1]

You didn't get water training, you got ...

(Insert rant on assembly line student mills here)

I think real water landings are serious business.

You need the mental training to

- see it coming
- decide how to fly the last few hundred feet
- and which way to land
- accept that you are going to abandon your zillion dollar rig
- get your chest strap undone
- start shedding shoes/helmet/...
- and so on

With squares people aren't landing in water much
anymore, and since they are no longer required
they're getting taught by people who've never
made one, and who in turn were taught by people
who've never made one, so ...

So it's an imperfect world and I'm an idealist,
and what I see here is that with your military
training you can make a difference in your part
of the world when it's your turn to start teaching
people.

Skr

[lekstrom10k 0]

After making over 30 water jumps I have never had a canopy drop on me or even close. Somebody added the nerd factor into and came up with the BS now in SIM.There isnt one word about lack of depth perception. How about being way to cool and cutaway just above the water to wow the whuffos. They usually are amazed in the video of how far up they were just before they got knocked out. Lucky boats are required and rescue people. After doing demo jumps into the Detroit River with a 7 moh current we thought we didnt need to check it out a the shore. What a surprise when we got to the gazebo to present the waterproof certificate. There was a big sign screwed to the railing thar said "Do not swim here because the under tow is to great". Ready to kill the demo organizer. You can do a pops hit and rock accuracy trick on your leg and chest straps.though

[jaybwise 0]

Thanks skr and everyone else. Im glad it's not just me thinking too much into it.

[airtwardo 7]

The little 'outlaw' club I started jumping at was extreme and hardcore in ALL their training...

To get our D's we had to make TWO actual water jumps into a huge lake, the same day.

The first one we went with cutoffs and sandals, a ski vest under the harness...land as close to the pick up boat as you could, they then hauled ya in and headed for the beach...It really showed you, it's NOT all that hard.

The 2nd was all geared up, 'dressed' for a demo.

Boots & brackets, motorcycle helmet, jumpsuit and flag...it really showed you, it's not all that EASY!

The boat was there as in the first jump, but mostly to snag the gear you discarded...to 'pass', you then had to save yourself by swimming in.

Somehow, I tend to think the training one receives when the beer light is on, in a 3 foot pool, is actually doing a DIS-SERVICE to the trainee.






SPLASH!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[jlmiracle 7]

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"all you have to do is put them in a harness, push them in a pool and let them swim out of it and your done."

Was this seriously the ONLY instructions you received?

Quote

strong feeling I was waisting my time and money

Did you pay to use a pool? I think I paid a couple dollars when I did mine because we had to "rent" pool time from the school.

I'm not trying to make any excuses for the way they handled your training, just trying to clarify a couple things.
j

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[monkycndo 0]

I had a hybrid of what has been described. Made mine at Lake McGregor at LP'05. I was familiar with the SIM already. Livendive gave me the briefing. I hopped off the dock and had the canopy thrown over my head. I was a bit nervous because I nearly drown as a kid. Don't like swimming much. It took me a bit to get out of the harness, but it wasn't as bad as I built it up to be. I at least know what to expect if it happens again. I'm glad my first experience of a "water landing" was in a controlled environment than under a reserve after the shit has hit the fan. That alone is worth it.

50 donations so far. Give it a try.

You know you want to spank it
Jump an Infinity

[jaybwise 0]

I didn't hang around for the training, it was allready running almost an hour late, soon to be dark, and after hearing what the training included I thought it best to just travel the extra 45 min to the next DZ in hopes of better training offered. I'm not sure what the money was going to cover.

[wildfan75 1]

I got to jump off a 10 foot bridge with an old ratty harness on and open crappy canopy. I guess that's pretty realistic compared to the 3ft kiddie pool. And I didn't even have to pay for the gas to drive the bus two miles from the dz to do it!

[shermanator 4]

If you want to know how important it is, talk to some people that were lucky to survive before water training was a huge hit. go down to pacific skydiving center and talk to Will. I've never heard the full story from him, so i won't try to tell it, but he was lucky to survive.

CLICK HERE! new blog posted 9/21/08
CSA #720

[Turfsurf 0]

Very good point. Learn from people who actually did real water landings!
Scratch, I haven't seen, or jumped with you since "Torp" airport in Norway, back in I think was 1975 or 1976.

Use your turn signal!

[dragonfyr 0]

We have a pretty good Water Training presentation we use at Chicagoland Skydiving. If anyone would like a copy to use for their own purpose or for their dropzone, just drop me a line. We're happy to share some of the presentations we've put together.

We also have presentations for Night Jumps and High Altitude Jumps.

Don Moffett
S&TA Chicagoland Skydiving

[stitch 0]

I will back you up on that. I took water training from Don in August 2005, in Dekalb, Il.

Very thorough and professional course.

"No cookies for you"- GFD
"I don't think I like the sound of that" ~ MB65
Don't be a "Racer Hater"

[billvon 2,992]

I used to do water training about once every six months. The pool stuff was pretty standard - two tries at an under-canopy water escape, one swimming, one walking-hands under the canopy. Twice we had underwater video with critique afterwards. I thought that was going a little far, myself.

For me, the bigger part of it was the discussion part. I saw it as the last formal instruction these guys were ever going to get, so I went over things like:

gear selection and downsizing
what all those terms like "superfloat" mean
how to get into bigways and freeflying
who to ask for advice
advanced airplane safety (oxygen and fire, tailgate stalls etc)
living through boogies

etc etc. Would usually take about 2 hours. (It was about 45 minutes of material, but people would always interject "yeah, and this one time, at band camp . . ." kinds of stories.)

Payment was generally in beer, unless we had to rent the pool or something.

[RB_Hammer 0]

Quote

I got to jump off a 10 foot bridge with an old ratty harness on and open crappy canopy. I guess that's pretty realistic compared to the 3ft kiddie pool. And I didn't even have to pay for the gas to drive the bus two miles from the dz to do it!

That is the best I've heard so far. Did you do a PLF into the water? How deep was it? What differed from what you thought it would be?

I just got mine in a public pool, 12 foot deep. Old harness and large canopy. Put harness on, canopy on head. Get a breath, chest strap off, dive out.

For me, what was different from what I thought it would be was that I am a really good swimmer, and just having the canopy above me in the water, even though it didn't restrict or hamper breathing or movement, still made me really nervous until I dove out.

edit to add last paragraph

"I'm not lost. I don't know where I'm going, but there's no sense in being late."
Mathew Quigley

[Para5-0 0]

One thing I add to water training that might help and this was tested and works great:

Once in the water, and chest strap is undone, you can dive down and do a front flip under the water and come right out of your gear. Assuming you are a good swimmer.

Good Luck

[billvon 2,992]

>I got to jump off a 10 foot bridge with an old ratty harness on and open
>crappy canopy. I guess that's pretty realistic compared to the 3ft kiddie pool . . .

My "water training" happened in 1993, when I jumped off an 876 foot bridge and landed in the river under an old crappy canopy. Was very realistic! I later sat through the "real" water training; didn't seem the same somehow.

[chrismgtis 0]

I took the water training course last year.

If your instructor(s) went over the SIM information with you, you are supposed to learn from that. What the procedures are, what you should or should not do.

If you jumped in the water and the canopy was thrown over your head after you were in and you had to get out of the harness and swim away, you got the training you needed.

Try jumping in that water with the chest strap routed properly. The strap seems to swell up and it's not easy to get out of. I learned that the hard way when I forgot to loosen the strap before I got in the water and ended up floating on my back for two minutes trying to get the chest strap undone.

That's the purpose of that course. Knowing what to do, what not to do and what to expect and getting some idea what it's going to be like if it happens.

In an event like that, I'd rather have SOME kind of training rather than none at all, otherwise you're going to be like Oh **** what the **** do I do? Well, you die.

Rodriguez Brother #1614, Muff Brother #4033
Jumped: Twin Otter, Cessna 182, CASA, Helicopter, Caravan

[The111 1]

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Really, how important is water training?

Depends how important not drowning is to you.

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