odd Vector II RSL retrofit?

[pchapman 279]

This isn't an Action Air RSL is it? Weren't they more conventional, with straight pin ripcord and RSL ring over the cable? And I think they were labelled.

I'm wondering if the thing in the photo is more 'home made'?

(The rig was in Lodi until recently. Without trying to be biased against them, strange things come from there. Last month I found a Raven that was there many years and never had the bartack bulletin done...)

The pictured Vector uses the figure-9 pin on the RSL, with the loop end of the ripcord pulling the RSL pin. (That the reserve cable goes through or does not go through the small ring doesn't matter either way.)

That's OK, but there's no big ring for the RSL.

In a non-ideal cutaway going more head low, there's nothing to keep the RSL lanyard from trying to bend the pin, nothing to keep a good direction of pull on the RSL.

Yuck?

I'm not releasing this rig for use with the RSL unless I'm convinced otherwise.

(Edit: I'm in Canada, so I don't have to care about TSOs specifically. But safety, yes.)

[inline Vector_RSL_questioned.jpg]

[Tink1717 2]

Your rig has a skyhook system on it. Better than a standard RSL, but something of a learning curve in the riggin loft. Once you get used to packing them, they're no problem.

Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off.
-The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!)
AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717

[pchapman 279]

Except that this is a Vector II of a customer's that certainly doesn't have a Skyhook.

But your comment does remind me to highlight how Skyhooks work:

The Skyhook doesn't use a mechanism to direct the RSL pull direction, which overturns the old standard of having such a thing. E.g., the 'big ring' for the RSL to go through is removed (as the Skyhook isn't going to go through it)

[Edit: emphasis added]
So does that then imply that an older system configured with a figure-9 pin and no RSL directional control is safe after all??

Vector II with figure-9 pin RSL has the ring, modern Vector III with Skyhook or just RSL does not. [edit] But an older Vector III with an RSL has the old big ring, in which case the manual shows to use the RSL through the ring after all...

[Hooknswoop 19]

Which riser is the RSL connected to?

Derek V

[pchapman 279]

RSL velcro on the user's left side reserve risers.


Edit:
Since the modern Vector III doesn't have the guide ring and works in practice, and I have found a Bill Booth statement about how it was never necessary to have the guide ring (with a figure-9 pin and soft closing loop)... I guess I'll accept the configuration.

(I do still wonder if a configuration like that might 'tow' for a moment when pulling at 90 degrees like some bag lock mals, before rotating the jumper and clearing...)

[ufk22 33]

this looks just like the RSL on my old V-2
Hate to ask, but have you checked with UPT???

This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

[councilman24 37]

This is NOT the Action Air RSL. I have the drawings for it and have had several rigs done there. It is a 'normal' rsl with a normal ripcord with pin.

About not having the big guide ring. IF this pin had a shank that was curved like the old wire pins I'd not worry so much about it. But this pin is really straight for most of it's length. I can envision head down with pull with the lanyard getting under the pin. Anyway, I think there are more failure modes based on direction with this pin than the old wire pins that were a complete arc with the eye inside the circumference of the pin.

Unless your were rigging in the late 80's you probably have never seen one of these.
Photo later, maybe.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[RIGGER 0]

Hi

This setting is a mix between who knows ????

This is not Action Air setting & not RWS/UPT setting.

Vector RSL were always on the RIGHT side - from RWS/UPT.

There is a UPT V2 RSL retrofit kit that can be set by a Master Rigger on the RIGHT side only.

FYI

Cheers

[SStewart 13]

I had a Vector with a similar mod last year except the webbing attached to the pin went through a big ring on the right side and the cable did not go through a ring at all. In other words the guide ring was on the opposite side and it was an over-sized ring. It came form the North East US, there was no notation of the mod on the data card but I think it was done in the mid-90's judging by the last repack date.
I see your concern, the guide ring serves no purpose at all on the left side. Send a picture to UPT and see what they say.

Kevin, this is an older Vector that was modified for an RSL. The lanyard goes directly to the riser, all it does is pull the pin, there is no Skyhook.

Onward and Upward!

[gowlerk 2,216]

Quote

I had a Vector with a similar mod last year except the webbing attached to the pin went through a big ring on the right side and the cable did not go through a ring at all.

And that is the only configuration I can find on the UPT website for the V2 RSL retrofit. As such it sounds correct.

The one Peter has is not correct. I have no idea what if any consequences that could have. I'm not the maker, it's not up to me to decide. Pack it? I'm in Canada as well, but I don't see how that could relieve me of the responsibility to refuse to sign off on it. And unless you replace the cable you can't really close it without the RSL. I wouldn't if I were you, but I'm pretty sure you've already come to that conclusion yourself.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[mark 107]

I can't see the binding tape stitching overstitch or backstitch I would expect if the ring were added after the flap subassembly was complete. Is the ring installation original?

Mark

[pchapman 279]

It looks like the ring was a retrofit. (A close look at the stitching suggests that.)

I'm guessing the rig first had a left side 'conventional' RSL retrofit, with an RSL ring -- over the normal pinned ripcord -- between the one ring and the end of the ripcord housing, and velcro added to a reserve riser. Then later the ring was made irrelevant, by putting on a figure-9 RSL / ripcord pin, and a ripcord that pulls the RSL, in typical Vector fashion.

So to sum up again:
It seems the small ring doesn't matter now. Lack of any big ring for the figure-9 RSL, means that while the design is incorrect for a Vector II, it is consistent with the design principles of the later Vector III RSL's.

[skydiverek 63]

pchapman

So to sum up again:
It seems the small ring doesn't matter now. Lack of any big ring for the figure-9 RSL, means that while the design is incorrect for a Vector II, it is consistent with the design principles of the later Vector III RSL's.

From Bill Booth on the ring removed on Vector IIIs:
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=802654#802654

And, as for why Vector's RSL is on the RIGHT side:

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=411246#411246

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=412365#412365

[pchapman 279]

Yeah, I've gone through various RSL threads lately.
To summarize as far as I recall, for those not clicking through your links:

a) big ring removed - Bill never thought a directional guide ring was needed in the first place for an RSL (at least with a figure-9 pin on it) but everyone else had a ring, so he kept it, until the age of the Skyhook where he removed it to avoid misrigging the skyhook

b) right side RSL - since if there's riser breakage, it has more often been the left side one (People pulling to right tend to be more left side low?)