riggerrob 643 #1 November 7, 2013 What is the ugliest pilot emergency parachute you have ever worn, been asked to repack, etc.? Was it faded? Was it frayed? Was it filthy? Was the spring-loaded pilot chute choosing its own orientation? Was it older than the pilot? Had the manufacturer grounded it before the pilot was born? Did the canopy have more jumps that the pilot? Was the hardware rusted? Were the Quick-Ejector Snaps "lacking in springs?" Was the webbing fuzzier than your cat? Was the closing loop fuzzier than your cat? Was the closing loop made of cat-gut? Was the plastic ripcord handle cracked? Was the ripcord cable too long? Was the ripcord cable too short? Was the ripcord cable not made of steel cable? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pchapman 279 #2 November 7, 2013 Ugliest pilot rigs I've seen: Rigs for a DZ's pilots that are just early 1980s skydiving rigs with round reserves, with the main pulled out and replaced by a cushion. Theoretically they get repacked each year, but I've got the feeling they are at the bottom of the priority list. Oldest pilot rigs: In 2002 I packed a '65 C-9 in an NB-8. Couldn't rip it in pull tests... so I packed it .... with the usual talk to the pilot about suggestions for something more modern. (It was 37 years old then. I've never had to use a reserve over 34 years old.) A couple years later there was a 28' Reliance canopy of unknown date in a military seatpack. Given the little I now know about Reliance from Poynters, maybe it was an even older canopy. Ugh. In recent years I've seen an old Security 150, or maybe worse, an Eddie Grimm copy of a Security 150. At least they are old enough not to have any mesh in the the vents, so there's no acid mesh issue.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
talon2 0 #3 November 7, 2013 2 spring to mind ...........one where we assumed the glider pilot pissed on it on a distance /endurance flight .2nd ,the pilot who found the 'seating' of the pilot chute was not to his liking and was able to open ,remove and close same. The pissed on rig reappeared 5 years later as the rigger yelled across the loft ,'ya remember the catspiss rig ?we got another ' it was the same one(we had de stunk Quotethe thing first time ) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites indyz 1 #4 November 7, 2013 The worst I ever managed to make airworthy was a nearly-new Softie back. It was originally assembled and packed with a square reserve at a well-known west coast loft. The connector links were installed in three of the four possible orientations, all of them incorrect. The pilot chute was from a Mirage (the manual recommends a 357 Magnum). It was clearly used and some damage to the fabric had been "repaired" with ripstop tape. The strap on the pilot chute was installed incorrectly. Inspecting the rig before opening it to pack, it was obvious that the closing loop was at least 1" too long. When I removed the loop from the rig, I found that at some point somebody had tried to shorten it by tying an overhand knot in the middle of it, meaning that the loop was actually 2"-3" too long and would have prevented deployment unless both pins were pulled. Finally, the gates on both B-12 snaps were bent, one so badly that it was impossible to open and the other wouldn't close once it was open. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RiggerLee 61 #5 November 7, 2013 A couple come to mind. There was a military seat pack that came in, c-9. I don't recall how long it had been packed. I think it had been left in the corner of a hanger where water accumulated in a puddle. Oddly enough I don't recall the hardware being that bad and the canopy wasn't even that bad as far as it's actual condition goes ie it pull tested fine. But when we tried to open it we had... problems. The whole canopy was stiff stuck together from what ever minerals were carried in the water over the... years. We had to peel apart and un bend the folds of the canopy. Then the lines would not come out of the hesitator loops. I mean I had both feet planted on the frame trying to pull the line stows out of the nylon loops. Then we had to try to peel apart all the gores of the canopy. But in the end the thing seemed to be... Ok. We couldn't find any grounds for grounding it. Another example of what appeared to be a perfectly good PEP on the out side. It was one of the PEP there at Quincy on year. Pit guy. Really nice softy. Some wear, he actually used it but it appeared far better cared for then most of the rigs that I saw come in back home. So we open it up and there is no diaper on the FFE reserve. Don't get me wrong. There had been a diaper on the canopy when it was last packed it just wasn't there any more. The diaper had been made out of some form of pollycotten blend. Ever notice that? It probable made it much easier to stamp and stencil the information on it. Don't ask me how they get away with this. Well it bit them on the ass. It had gotten wet. Mold a whole forest of it. The lines had absorbed and held the water. There was nothing left of the fabric of the diaper. There was still the binding tape around the edge there was still the loops with the rubber bands on them but every thing else was gone. I never liked the ejection seats for the XV-15 prototype of the V-22 Osprey . I always thought it was a fucked up design. I have no idea who the nonrigging engineering genius was who came up with this. It's not just that it was a pain to pack and a pain to open but the risers had this built in asymmetry that was just begging for an inversion and the big ass cutter that tethered you to this crashing aircraft of death was a big steal weight that was left on the top of your pilot chute. I just did not like them. I always figured that I could have taken a shit and produced something more airworthy then that log. LeeLee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites likestojump 3 #6 November 7, 2013 Grounded this one. Also had a few that smelled like they sat around for two decades in a basement with a moisture problem. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RiggerLee 61 #7 November 7, 2013 I love the tan lines. They would make any swim suit model proud. LeeLee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Quagmirian 40 #8 November 7, 2013 likestojump Grounded this one. I'll take it then. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JerryBaumchen 1,373 #9 November 7, 2013 Hi Lee, Quote The diaper had been made out of some form of pollycotten blend. Their diapers are made of an aircraft grade cotten; and they still make them this way. It comes from these folks: http://www.fox-rich.com/ JerryBaumchen PS) From their website: Airplane Cloth As the only producers (that we know of) of the original airplane cloth, Fox-Rich is proud to be a part of history in helping restore antique airplanes. For all aeronautical fanatics, yes, this is the same 100% cotton, high construction fabric made with fine yarn, and finished to meet military specification MIL-C-5646F, and AM3806. Because of its unique characteristics as a very high bursting strength cotton fabric with a very smooth and soft hand, this material is now used in many other applications including adhesion tests, museum artifact storage, several military applications and even in high-end apparel. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RiggerLee 61 #10 November 7, 2013 What I don't get is how they got away with a 120/180 day repack cycle on it. This was actually really scary. It just drives home the point that parachutes should be made from nylon. There was a reason why nonsynthetic components had such a short repack cycle. LeeLee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NNB 0 #11 November 7, 2013 the Merten from Germany is right up there as are the AirPol from another eastern block country. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 643 #12 November 8, 2013 The proud (second) owner of a Citabria brought in a pair of (near-new) Softies and asked me to repack them. They contained ancient 24 foot flat military-surplus canopies that had hundreds of jumps ... judging by the dust and stains and fading and ... When I applied the clamps (as per PIA testing standard ????) one failed at 14 pounds and the other failed at 17 pounds. Then I applied the clamps to the rattiest of the MA-1 pilot-chutes ... Every time I pulled a hole in the canopy, the co-pilot giggled and egged me on. The pilot grimaced while he listened to Mr. Butler's sales pitch on newer canopies. Funny how that (East Coast) rigger lost he dealership for Butler PEPs. A few years later, he lost his dealership for Softies????? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 643 #13 November 8, 2013 The ugliest seat-pack - I ever saw - came out of a Russian-made Yak aerobatic airplane. I suspect that I was made in Russia, but I could not read the faded, cyrilic label. The cotton container was faded. The harness hardware was starting to rust. The KAP-3 was rusted. There was no spring in the pilot-chute and the pack-opening- bands had lost their elasticity decades ago. The owner could not even provide a cyrilic manual. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Deyan 36 #14 November 8, 2013 riggerrob The ugliest seat-pack - I ever saw - came out of a Russian-made Yak aerobatic airplane. I suspect that I was made in Russia, but I could not read the faded, cyrilic label. The cotton container was faded. The harness hardware was starting to rust. The KAP-3 was rusted. There was no spring in the pilot-chute and the pack-opening- bands had lost their elasticity decades ago. The owner could not even provide a cyrilic manual. Probably a C-4U. Let me know if you still need the manual.....in English P.S. I really like this system. I've packed some good hundreds of them back in the army. And based on the drop tests we did, I can assure you that the spring less pilot chute works like a dream"My belief is that once the doctor whacks you on the butt, all guarantees are off" Jerry Baumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 643 #15 November 9, 2013 Deyan ***The ugliest seat-pack - I ever saw - came out of a Russian-made Yak aerobatic airplane. I suspect that I was made in Russia, but I could not read the faded, cyrilic label. The cotton container was faded. The harness hardware was starting to rust. The KAP-3 was rusted. There was no spring in the pilot-chute and the pack-opening- bands had lost their elasticity decades ago. The owner could not even provide a cyrilic manual. Probably a C-4U. Let me know if you still need the manual.....in English P.S. I really like this system. I've packed some good hundreds of them back in the army. And based on the drop tests we did, I can assure you that the spring less pilot chute works like a dream............................................................................... Hah! Hah! An english-language version of the manual would be nice. The primary reason - that I refused to repack it - was the rusty KAP-3. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 643 #16 November 15, 2013 Tan lines? Hah! I once got a National seat that was so badly sun-burnt, you could tear the riser covers just by shaking them! That PEP had been left sitting in a Yak, with a long, green-house, Plexiglas canopy. I had to manufacture an entirely new back-pad and riser covers. Fortunately, the riser covers had done their job and there was no UV damage to the risers. I still use that back-pad - as a training aid - when teaching new riggers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 643 #17 November 15, 2013 NNBthe Merten from Germany is right up there ... ........................................................................... That Merten looks as ugly as some of the rigs made by Hank Asquito and Jim Handbury - back during the 1970s, when they were first learning how to build sport rigs. I am assuming that the Merten has 3 ripcord pins???? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites likestojump 3 #18 November 15, 2013 Had an old model Preserve canopy in a PEP that got damn, and sat around forever. The old style preserves used cotton diapes, and it was completely rotted. I peeled the diaper off the canopy with almost no effort. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BigMark 1 #19 November 15, 2013 The one between the seats of gypsy rose, it was used to wipe your feet on when entering and exiting the cockpit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RiggerLee 61 #20 November 15, 2013 Hell that diaper looks pristine in comparison to the one at Quency. That one wasn't even there any more, at all. LeeLee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites alexey 6 #21 November 15, 2013 riggerrob That Merten looks as ugly as some of the rigs made by Hank Asquito and Jim Handbury - back during the 1970s, when they were first learning how to build sport rigs. I am assuming that the Merten has 3 ripcord pins???? yep. And top and bottom loops made from elastic (like a safety stow but thicker). its looks and packs ... hm... strange. And all the rig looks so old-school. 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indyz 1 #4 November 7, 2013 The worst I ever managed to make airworthy was a nearly-new Softie back. It was originally assembled and packed with a square reserve at a well-known west coast loft. The connector links were installed in three of the four possible orientations, all of them incorrect. The pilot chute was from a Mirage (the manual recommends a 357 Magnum). It was clearly used and some damage to the fabric had been "repaired" with ripstop tape. The strap on the pilot chute was installed incorrectly. Inspecting the rig before opening it to pack, it was obvious that the closing loop was at least 1" too long. When I removed the loop from the rig, I found that at some point somebody had tried to shorten it by tying an overhand knot in the middle of it, meaning that the loop was actually 2"-3" too long and would have prevented deployment unless both pins were pulled. Finally, the gates on both B-12 snaps were bent, one so badly that it was impossible to open and the other wouldn't close once it was open. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RiggerLee 61 #5 November 7, 2013 A couple come to mind. There was a military seat pack that came in, c-9. I don't recall how long it had been packed. I think it had been left in the corner of a hanger where water accumulated in a puddle. Oddly enough I don't recall the hardware being that bad and the canopy wasn't even that bad as far as it's actual condition goes ie it pull tested fine. But when we tried to open it we had... problems. The whole canopy was stiff stuck together from what ever minerals were carried in the water over the... years. We had to peel apart and un bend the folds of the canopy. Then the lines would not come out of the hesitator loops. I mean I had both feet planted on the frame trying to pull the line stows out of the nylon loops. Then we had to try to peel apart all the gores of the canopy. But in the end the thing seemed to be... Ok. We couldn't find any grounds for grounding it. Another example of what appeared to be a perfectly good PEP on the out side. It was one of the PEP there at Quincy on year. Pit guy. Really nice softy. Some wear, he actually used it but it appeared far better cared for then most of the rigs that I saw come in back home. So we open it up and there is no diaper on the FFE reserve. Don't get me wrong. There had been a diaper on the canopy when it was last packed it just wasn't there any more. The diaper had been made out of some form of pollycotten blend. Ever notice that? It probable made it much easier to stamp and stencil the information on it. Don't ask me how they get away with this. Well it bit them on the ass. It had gotten wet. Mold a whole forest of it. The lines had absorbed and held the water. There was nothing left of the fabric of the diaper. There was still the binding tape around the edge there was still the loops with the rubber bands on them but every thing else was gone. I never liked the ejection seats for the XV-15 prototype of the V-22 Osprey . I always thought it was a fucked up design. I have no idea who the nonrigging engineering genius was who came up with this. It's not just that it was a pain to pack and a pain to open but the risers had this built in asymmetry that was just begging for an inversion and the big ass cutter that tethered you to this crashing aircraft of death was a big steal weight that was left on the top of your pilot chute. I just did not like them. I always figured that I could have taken a shit and produced something more airworthy then that log. LeeLee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
likestojump 3 #6 November 7, 2013 Grounded this one. Also had a few that smelled like they sat around for two decades in a basement with a moisture problem. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RiggerLee 61 #7 November 7, 2013 I love the tan lines. They would make any swim suit model proud. LeeLee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Quagmirian 40 #8 November 7, 2013 likestojump Grounded this one. I'll take it then. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,373 #9 November 7, 2013 Hi Lee, Quote The diaper had been made out of some form of pollycotten blend. Their diapers are made of an aircraft grade cotten; and they still make them this way. It comes from these folks: http://www.fox-rich.com/ JerryBaumchen PS) From their website: Airplane Cloth As the only producers (that we know of) of the original airplane cloth, Fox-Rich is proud to be a part of history in helping restore antique airplanes. For all aeronautical fanatics, yes, this is the same 100% cotton, high construction fabric made with fine yarn, and finished to meet military specification MIL-C-5646F, and AM3806. Because of its unique characteristics as a very high bursting strength cotton fabric with a very smooth and soft hand, this material is now used in many other applications including adhesion tests, museum artifact storage, several military applications and even in high-end apparel. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RiggerLee 61 #10 November 7, 2013 What I don't get is how they got away with a 120/180 day repack cycle on it. This was actually really scary. It just drives home the point that parachutes should be made from nylon. There was a reason why nonsynthetic components had such a short repack cycle. LeeLee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NNB 0 #11 November 7, 2013 the Merten from Germany is right up there as are the AirPol from another eastern block country. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #12 November 8, 2013 The proud (second) owner of a Citabria brought in a pair of (near-new) Softies and asked me to repack them. They contained ancient 24 foot flat military-surplus canopies that had hundreds of jumps ... judging by the dust and stains and fading and ... When I applied the clamps (as per PIA testing standard ????) one failed at 14 pounds and the other failed at 17 pounds. Then I applied the clamps to the rattiest of the MA-1 pilot-chutes ... Every time I pulled a hole in the canopy, the co-pilot giggled and egged me on. The pilot grimaced while he listened to Mr. Butler's sales pitch on newer canopies. Funny how that (East Coast) rigger lost he dealership for Butler PEPs. A few years later, he lost his dealership for Softies????? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #13 November 8, 2013 The ugliest seat-pack - I ever saw - came out of a Russian-made Yak aerobatic airplane. I suspect that I was made in Russia, but I could not read the faded, cyrilic label. The cotton container was faded. The harness hardware was starting to rust. The KAP-3 was rusted. There was no spring in the pilot-chute and the pack-opening- bands had lost their elasticity decades ago. The owner could not even provide a cyrilic manual. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deyan 36 #14 November 8, 2013 riggerrob The ugliest seat-pack - I ever saw - came out of a Russian-made Yak aerobatic airplane. I suspect that I was made in Russia, but I could not read the faded, cyrilic label. The cotton container was faded. The harness hardware was starting to rust. The KAP-3 was rusted. There was no spring in the pilot-chute and the pack-opening- bands had lost their elasticity decades ago. The owner could not even provide a cyrilic manual. Probably a C-4U. Let me know if you still need the manual.....in English P.S. I really like this system. I've packed some good hundreds of them back in the army. And based on the drop tests we did, I can assure you that the spring less pilot chute works like a dream"My belief is that once the doctor whacks you on the butt, all guarantees are off" Jerry Baumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #15 November 9, 2013 Deyan ***The ugliest seat-pack - I ever saw - came out of a Russian-made Yak aerobatic airplane. I suspect that I was made in Russia, but I could not read the faded, cyrilic label. The cotton container was faded. The harness hardware was starting to rust. The KAP-3 was rusted. There was no spring in the pilot-chute and the pack-opening- bands had lost their elasticity decades ago. The owner could not even provide a cyrilic manual. Probably a C-4U. Let me know if you still need the manual.....in English P.S. I really like this system. I've packed some good hundreds of them back in the army. And based on the drop tests we did, I can assure you that the spring less pilot chute works like a dream............................................................................... Hah! Hah! An english-language version of the manual would be nice. The primary reason - that I refused to repack it - was the rusty KAP-3. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #16 November 15, 2013 Tan lines? Hah! I once got a National seat that was so badly sun-burnt, you could tear the riser covers just by shaking them! That PEP had been left sitting in a Yak, with a long, green-house, Plexiglas canopy. I had to manufacture an entirely new back-pad and riser covers. Fortunately, the riser covers had done their job and there was no UV damage to the risers. I still use that back-pad - as a training aid - when teaching new riggers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #17 November 15, 2013 NNBthe Merten from Germany is right up there ... ........................................................................... That Merten looks as ugly as some of the rigs made by Hank Asquito and Jim Handbury - back during the 1970s, when they were first learning how to build sport rigs. I am assuming that the Merten has 3 ripcord pins???? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
likestojump 3 #18 November 15, 2013 Had an old model Preserve canopy in a PEP that got damn, and sat around forever. The old style preserves used cotton diapes, and it was completely rotted. I peeled the diaper off the canopy with almost no effort. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigMark 1 #19 November 15, 2013 The one between the seats of gypsy rose, it was used to wipe your feet on when entering and exiting the cockpit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RiggerLee 61 #20 November 15, 2013 Hell that diaper looks pristine in comparison to the one at Quency. That one wasn't even there any more, at all. LeeLee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alexey 6 #21 November 15, 2013 riggerrob That Merten looks as ugly as some of the rigs made by Hank Asquito and Jim Handbury - back during the 1970s, when they were first learning how to build sport rigs. I am assuming that the Merten has 3 ripcord pins???? yep. And top and bottom loops made from elastic (like a safety stow but thicker). its looks and packs ... hm... strange. And all the rig looks so old-school. Like Strong DH :)Lexa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
