Skyflier 0 #26 May 25, 2002 While I feel a great deal of sympathy for the the family Vic Pappadoto, I can't help but feel that in this case the courts made a sensible decision. I am certainly not in favour of an increasingly litigious aspect of our sport developing, but I fear that this will be the case moreso if the courts don't send the right message to ambulance-chasing lawyers.Recently here in Australia the courts overruled on appeal a previous judgement which had awarded an injured tandam passenger a multi-million dollar payout. This young lady had sighed the waiver and thus accepted the risks inherent in skydiving. The court, on appeal from the dropzone, up-held the waiver and found no fault on the part of the dropzone and hence the money that this girl had been spending on traveling in South America will be returned to its rightful owners.I suppose all we can hope for is common-sense to prevail in any future incidents...JP. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallRate 0 #27 May 25, 2002 Bill, it appears to me that this will in fact limit lawsuits. There is now a precedent for what can happen to those who believe they should make every attempt to profit from tragedy by way of lawsuits. There are now very real risks in filing a lawsuit against any part of the skydiving industry. People won't be so inclined to chase free money if it means they may lose their own. FallRate Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ScottishJohn 25 #28 May 25, 2002 SPICY =================================I can smell your noodles !================================= Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wingnut 0 #29 May 25, 2002 jt,i know for a fact that las vegas gravity zone is only a 30 minute drive and a nice 206 dz with a/c packing area. and perris is a 4 hour drive on i-15... i visited both dz when i was in vegas last aug-sept.. your gona love it there!!!it only took a little pixie dust to change this mispelling Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airann 1 #30 May 25, 2002 QuoteUnfortunately, if you didn't do your student jumps there, you can't jump there. While I appreciate what he's just done in the legal arena, I don't like the fact that I can't jump at his dz...Ya lost me here..... I dont get this rule at all. What is this?, Why is this? And is it due to the lawsuit? I used to know a guy over on Wreck that got banned from there a couple of years ago. He used to yell at me alot so I remember him. In order to keep a true perspective on importance, ... have a dog that will worship you and a cat that will ignore you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jtval 0 #31 May 25, 2002 WINGY--I definitely believe you!! thanks for the info > i am just waiting for the time zone so I can call them up and say "My name is JT and I am a skydiver"I kinda miss the cesna's(is that weird) but I wish they had more then just that. maybe by the timne I get my instructor lisence thatll change! either way I HOPE THEY HAVE A COMMUNITY!!Life's a bitch, and I'm her Pimp!JThttp://community.webshots.com/user/jtval100 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
f1freak 0 #32 May 25, 2002 who needs the lottery when you have contingency lawyers...what a mess we have.I want to be just like Truman Sparks when I get big... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgoper 0 #33 May 25, 2002 personally i do not agree with anyone trying to litigate in a time of duress. but ultimately, in the demise of society as we know it today, we are becoming a more litigous society. suing someone is more a "knee jerk" reaction, than a justice being sought for a lost, physically impaired or deceased individual. having said all of this, i would condone being reimbursed for someone who was in "obvious, or intentional negligence" again, as always, these views/thoughts/opinions are mine, and mine alone. i have been hurt seriously one time (i broke my ankle in 3 places) while on a drilling platform, they kept me on the payroll, even though i was 18 months, and 3 surgeries later getting back to normal. if more industries would react in this manner, i believe we'd have a lot of legal counsils on unemployment. (which, by the way, wouldn't hurt my feelings) i get sick and tired of seeing these "ambulane chasers" commercials on t.v. advertising on how easy they can make the rest of your life if you bring them a case, CUT ME SOME SLACK! or as John Stossil would say "gimme a break"Richard"Gravity Is My Friend" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #34 May 26, 2002 May be we need to add another line to our waivers "If you are dumb enough to breach this waiver by suing us, you (along with all your heirs, successors, executors, drinking buddies, etc.) will be forbidden to jump at the DZ ever again. We will also show copies of your court documents to all the other DZs, ski hills, snow board shops, kayak rental places, etc. we know of. On top of that, we will publically slander you and spit every time your name is mentioned. In short, you (along with your heirs, drinking buddies, etc.) will never have any more fun.On a practical note, if the woman who launched a certain lawsuit (over a death at Perris a couple of years ago) ever shows up at any DZ I am working at, I will advise my boss not to take her money, because she is a high risk for a law suit.In conclusion, I left Southern California because I hate working in a state where the laws are cast in clay! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jtval 0 #35 May 26, 2002 I hate working in a state where the laws are cast in clay!-----------------------------------------------------------ill!!!!! CLAY, YOU DIRTY BASTARD!!!!yea that and we'll post a picture of a greek statues' privates and claim they were yours!!!Life's a bitch, and I'm her Pimp!JThttp://community.webshots.com/user/jtval100 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #36 May 28, 2002 >Bill, it appears to me that this will in fact limit lawsuits. There is now a >precedent for what can happen to those who believe they should make every> attempt to profit from tragedy by way of lawsuits. There are now very real risks >in filing a lawsuit against any part of the skydiving industry. People won't be so> inclined to chase free money if it means they may lose their own. If you don't want birdshit on your rig, don't put a bird feeder over the packing area. Similarly, if you don't want to deal with lawsuits, I think it is a mistake for drop zones to initiate them. I think the strongest possible message we could send to potential litigants is that you can't win. (If you don't win, you generally still have to pay for _your_ court costs as well.) We don't need a countersuit to do that.What message are we sending with this suit? Apparently that lawsuits _are_ OK - heck, even DZ's sue people when they perceive a wrong being done to them! If that's the case, and you can afford it, why not sue a DZ? We're setting the precedent that lawsuits are an accepted form of doing business at a drop zone. -bill von Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 5 #37 May 28, 2002 Bill, I disagree that SDLV "started" this lawsuit. They were surved first. They should be allowed to defend themselves. A countersuit for damages to recover lawyers fees can be a viable defense. My honest feeling is that more good than harm was done by this action.Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #38 May 28, 2002 >Bill, I disagree that SDLV "started" this lawsuit.They filed a countersuit. If they hadn't filed it, it would not have been initated.> They were surved first. I'm sure the victim's family would claim that SDLV 'started' it by killing Vic, which of course is nonsense but is the kind of thing you get into when the "He started it!" claims begin.>They should be allowed to defend themselves. They did - they successfully defended themselves in court, and I support them 100% in that effort. They then started a separate legal proceeding to get money from the victim's family. That is what I disagree with. There are enough lawsuits out there already, and claiming that we have a higher moral ground that someone's family is playing a very dangerous game. There are experts, much better than any we have, that play the "moral high ground" game better than we ever could.-bill von Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 5 #39 May 28, 2002 Don't most waivers have a provision in them (at least the ones I've seen and actually read) about collection of attorney's fees and even if they win they still have to give them all the money? I don't think I've ever heard of a judgement being handed back to a DZ after being awarded to someone. That would be interesting to know.Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #40 May 28, 2002 QuoteThey then started a separate legal proceeding to get money from the victim's family.Bill.....thats called "leverage." Whatever amount it was that they sued for I would bet my paycheck that that family doesn't have it. It's not the point that they wanted the money. They just had to put pressure on the other side too. Play the "I'll drop my suit if you drop yours game." Nice guys finish broke/incarcerated in legal games. It's a nasty business. Thats why I'm not a lawyer..."Here I come to save the BOOBIES!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgoper 0 #41 May 28, 2002 all this legal "mumbo-jumbo" does is take the whole situation out of context. next thing you know we've got grown up individuals pointing fingers in blame, when in fact the primary concern should be the subject of conversation. no matter how many lawsuits are filed, will money bring him back, will money make the family feel better, the dzo? are is the whole cherade an act of absolution? it's all ludricrous. one day, our growing litigious society is going to put the "stop to all our fun"Richard"Gravity Is My Friend" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #42 May 28, 2002 Quoteit's all ludricrousI don't remember exactly which book this is out of or who the heck's quote it is but I have never heard a more true statement than this one. "Law is the bastard child of justice." Once something gets into court the truth goes right out the window. It's all about what you can prove and how bad you can make the other guy look. "Here I come to save the BOOBIES!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgoper 0 #43 May 29, 2002 it is indeed a sad day when our societie's moral values have dropped like anvils in the atlantic. it's a shame some people don't want to get a "haircut, and a real job" if we keep this B.S. up, how long before regulation takes over? i've dealt with "nuisance" suits all of my life in my industry, and at one time or another, i've had to offer "counter motions" to the court to ward off persistance on the prosecution. it's a joke. clay i reccomend, that you and i run for pres/vice pres next election, we could rule the world, not to mention head jobs under our desks while on the phone with the minister of isreal! we'll run on the independant ticket, no way we'll lose! Richard"Gravity Is My Friend" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
