Aircraft / wingsuit collision

[billvon 3,059]

I didn't want to post anything on this because I don't have the whole story, but it's been discussed in the wingsuit forum already and the incident is important enough to warrant wider distribution.
On Sunday a jumper wearing a wingsuit collided with the tail of one of the Perris Otters about 15 seconds after exit. He was banged up and bruised but amazingly was not seriously injured. The Otter landed safely. It will need some work (new skins on the tail was Pat's first guess) but was also not seriously damaged.
New wingsuits can achieve descent rates of below 40mph, and this is well within the range that a jumpship can achieve when descending. This means you have to consider aircraft traffic as well as other jumper traffic when planning your wingsuit dives. Plan ahead and talk to the pilot before the jump, so you can fly in a direction where you won't risk running into a descending airplane.
-bill von

[freeflir29 0]

A wingover mishap maybe?
"It's all about the BOOBIES!"

[SBS 0]

No, that wasn't the case. The pilot followed the standard procedure that had been set out, which was to continue for a time in a straight line and veer off. This pilot is conservative, and wingovers are not something that are practiced regularly at Perris. I don't know that I have ever seen one there when I was jumping, other than for special circumstances where it was planned.
Steve

[diverdriver 6]

Bill, can you confirm or dispute the info that I have been given by some people that the body of the aircraft has wrinkled skin just below the leading edge of the horizontal stabilizer and goes from top to bottom of the fuselage? Is it believed that the skin of the fuselage was wrinkled because of impact of the jumper or due to stress from the impact on the horizontal stabilizer?
Chris Schindler
www.DiverDriver.com

[billvon 3,059]

All I can tell you is what I saw and what Pat said. The fuselage between the right horizontal stab and vertical stab had some creasing; Pat was looking at that and at the vertical stab when he said that he thought he could get by with reskinning.
As an aside, if that represents where the impact occurred, the pilot was fortunate it did not occur five feet aft on the control surfaces. We nearly lost a king air five years ago when a student had a premature opening in the door; the impact almost tore the left horizontal stab off the plane and locked the elevator in nose-down position.
-bill von

[hobbes4star 0]

can't belive that the jumper waked away from that. glad everyone is ok.
why jump when you can fly

[skybytch 273]

Quote

can't belive that the jumper waked away from that.

He's very happy to be alive and unhurt. I talked to him earlier this week when he bought a Cypres - he figured it was time! pull & flare,
lisa
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On the other hand...you have different fingers

[airdrew20012001 0]

I figured this sort of thing was going to happen when wingsuits were more popular.
Drewfus McDoofus

[quade 4]

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. . . about 15 seconds after exit.

How confident are we of this part of the story?
quade
http://futurecam.com

[skybytch 273]

Quote

How confident are we of this part of the story?

The "scuttlebutt" on the dz Sunday evening after the incident was that it happened "10 to 15 seconds into the descent". I heard it second or third hand, so it very well could be incorrect. I'd think only the pilot would know for sure, as the wingsuit flier couldn't remember any of it.
pull & flare,
lisa
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On the other hand...you have different fingers

[diverdriver 6]

It's funny cuz he's alive but I can hear people adding to the list of reasons to buy a cypres as "Yah, if I'm knocked unconcious by another jumper or the jump plane after I exit." Sheeeesh. And he still has no memory of cutting away and deploying his reserve? Wow. Just amazing. And thankful that he's alive.
Chris Schindler

[quade 4]

I'll have to ask the pilot tomorrow when I'm back in town.
When I first heard of this incident I thought I had it all figured out, but then this "10 to 15 seconds into the descent" comes up and I have a real difficult time figuring out the geometry of it.
quade
http://futurecam.com

[ltdiver 3]

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When I first heard of this incident I thought I had it all figured out

It was the -right- horizontal stabilizer, not the left. So, the thoughts of it happening right on exit are null and void.
Went out and touched the wrinkles and saw the missing paint off the blue stabilizer. Makes one stop and pause.
I, for one, totally trust and believe this pilot. If he reported 15 seconds in his debrief, then that's enough for me.
So glad that everybody's ok. Amazing.
ltdiver
____________________________________________
LightDiverCam

[quade 4]

Hey, you make it sound like I don't believe everyone's story. That's not really the case -- I just don't understand it.
As for being able to hit the right side as opposed to the left side. I'm not completely convinced that couldn't happen on exit.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the jumper was hit on his rig? Is that a correct statement? I'm just trying to figure out the geometry.
Heck, maybe it was "wheel burble". quade
http://futurecam.com

[Billy 0]

Glad everyone is ok,,
so I'm curious,, where in the exit order do these boys get out,,

[skybytch 273]

Quote

Heck, maybe it was "wheel burble".

ROFL! I swear that plane has a bad one too - shoulda seen how it messed up my exit on Sunday
pull & flare,
lisa
---
On the other hand...you have different fingers

[quade 4]

He had been getting out last earlier in the day. I was on several loads with him, but not the one in question.
It makes a lot of sense to put out Birdmen last.
quade
http://futurecam.com

[ltdiver 3]

Quote

As for being able to hit the right side as opposed to the left side. I'm not completely convinced that couldn't happen on exit.

15 seconds after exit?
(see attachment and please explain)
(sitting back and wanting to learn from an engineer...)
ltdiver
btw, the pilot reported he had done what sbs posted here. Gone straight, then turned for decent. Pat, himself, was still trying to figure it out. Somehow the paths converged.
____________________________________________
LightDiverCam

[Michele 1]

Hi, guys.
You all know me, I am about as mechanically inclined as a slug, and I am about as likely to ever try a wingsuit as I am to marry a millionaire...
That being said, would someone take the time to explain to me what happened, in say, whuffo terms? I really want to understand, but I am utterly lost.
I appreciate it!
Ceils and Pinks-
Michele
If you really want to, you can seize the day; if you really want to, you can fly away...
~enya~

[PhreeZone 20]

I have one question.... could the jumper could have been tryig to lurk the plane and got WAY too close?
If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will....

[skydiventom 0]

See? God doesn't want us to fly. We should just fall downward and forget all that abomination.
Honest, it wasn't me.....

[VivaHeadDown 0]

So far, the info stated here is right. Whether we'll ever know the "geometry" of the impact or not is unclear. Neither the pilot or the jumper saw each other before, during, or after (wingsuit not lurking, had turned west out door for sunset load). Pilot reported he hit something, and another otter was sent up to check for damage. Jumper landed, and wasn't sure why he was under a reserve. It's the black marks (from the heat tracks on the tail inline with the engine) on the back of his rig that help put him at the moment of impact, that and the altitude the main was first spotted floating away.
As for the picture a post or two back, looking out the door at the tail, the impact is on the bottom of the horizontal portion of the tail on the OTHER side of the plane.

[SBS 0]

I have asked myself that, but don't think we'll ever have an answer.
Steve

[SBS 0]

Here's what happened from my point of view.
We were in the plane. Chris was last out, as all wingsuits always are, with few exceptions. We went about our skydive without incident.
When we landed, I heard someone point to a reserve. Saw a main floating, so there had been a cutaway. The reserve was high, so it looked like it was the birdman, because of the separation from the rest of the jumpers.
As we were headed in, we were being paged to check in. Checked in, and were informed that they were concerned because the pilot felt an impact during his descent (sp?).
They apparently sent another plane up to assess the damage before the otter landed. We found out later that the plane had, in fact, hit the birdman.
The pilot supposedly went straight for a short time, and then turned. This was standard procedure. They don't really know where hit what. His rig hit someplace, and I haven't heard anything else. At the point that I last heard, they didn't know if he had pulled his main or if the plane ripped it out. Either way, he cutaway and pulled his reserve and does not remember doing so (but still managed to keep his handles). His first memory was apparently from under his reserve, going "why the hell am I so high"?
Right afterwards, he was sitting in manifest and walking around like everything was fine. Of course he was shaken up, but I was seriously impressed.
Sounds like he hit a tire, and then the tail of the airplane. The vertical part of the tail is warped and tweaked on the right side, all the way from top to bottom. Haven't heard any recent estimates for the work to be done on the plane, but it ain't going to be cheap.
Anything important that I am missing, anybody?
Steve

[R00tj00se 0]

As this was an accident I take it the DZ is going to pay for this.
However, if, hypothetically, the Birdman had been lurking the aircraft and caused the damage through negligent flying could he/she be held responsible for the damage? Would USPA/BPA cover anything like this. Technically you have caused damage to someone else's property through a skydiving accident - would 3rd party insurance come into play?