what do you guys think?

[RedundantRigger 0]

A friend of mine asked me what I thought about this ripcord.
It's from 97 from RI.
On the handle the markings look as tough they've been scratched inn by hand with a needle of some sort.
"RI25H" or something thereabouts.. and later the TSO markings.
PL-97 (or FL-97) is stamped on the other side of the handle.

The strange thing about this ripcord is the pin. Where the pin is swaged on to the cable there run cracks parallell with the cable.
Also the end of the "swaged bit" has a crude finishing. Not a smooth transition like on new ripcords. It's not rough or anything, it just looks abit homemade-ish. Obviously done with some sort of angle grinder. Pin type is intermediate.

The ripcord is in service on a rig.
Picture is not so good...... but you get the picture
I'm interested to hear what some of you have to say about it.

[pchapman 279]

RedundantRigger

PL-97 (or FL-97) is stamped on the other side of the handle.

So that's Parachute Labs for the handle, John Sherman's company which is known for supplying ripcord components and assemblies.

Quote

The strange thing about this ripcord is the pin. Where the pin is swaged on to the cable there run cracks parallell with the cable.

I'm guessing not cracks in the normal sense, but just metal that has squeezed up out from between the dies during the swaging process. But still, with good technique and dies one would normally just have one mark on either side of the pin, 180 deg. apart, and the squeezed metal wouldn't be that messy, creating narrow flanges.

Grinding the part with the cable ends seems normal enough, although messily done here with multiple ground facets.

Sounds a bit like a home made replica of a RI ripcord that wasn't done that well, at a minimum at the cosmetic level?

Not sure about the scratched on lettering. I don't care so much if it is a home made ripcord, but if so, why try to pretend to be from RI?

[edit:] But that's all guesswork by someone who has built a few ripcords but not at a TSO facility. Whether to trust it or not, I dunno. Not everyone has a setup to do a 300 lb test. TSO requirements are another thing but I'll leave that to the US riggers.

[councilman24 37]

PL is Parachute Labs. The "scratching" is probably an engraving pen and it may be an RI part number. Ask RI.

I don't see cracks in the photo. I see ridges from the swaying process. But if there are cracks (true fissures where the metal has separated I'd take it immediately out of service. But I've never seen that kind of crack.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[RedundantRigger 0]

It's not easy to get on camera.
But I can perhaps elaborate.
You have the two flat "wings" 180 degree apart as you say.
One might ad that they are uneven in the "wingspan" along the length of the swaged part.

Now 90 degrees to the wings are what you could call ridges. Each ridge seems to have 2 cracks on its side.

[irishrigger 32]

It does look to me that there is a crack in the Pin from the second photo, and that is not good.
my advise do NOT take a chance and bin it, a new handle i am guessing is less than about 100 bucks including the shipping.
If i had that situation i contact the owner of the rig and advise him on it and recommend a new handle. and i would also tell him i would not sign the rig off with that handle installed.

Rodger

[councilman24 37]

The wings are not uncommon. The ridges aren't quite as normal. Cracks, if truly a negative space, a void, a place you could insert something else, then that's bad. I've never seen that and would NOT put it in the air.

In general it doesn't look like a PL ripcord to me. It may be, and is based on the markings, a PL handle but the grind on the cable/pin is lower quality than I've ever seen come from PL or any other manufacturer. I'd take it out of service immediately. If you have a ripcord tester and can load it to 300lbs, 600lbs if there is an RSL, and it doesn't creep you MIGHT let it go but if they are truly cracks I still wouldn't put it in the air.

This isn't a next repack thing it's a replace it before the next jump.

Call Rigging Innovations about the markings to better identify the handle at least.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[RiggerLee 61]

I tried to reply before but the stupid computer ate my post. The wing thing just means that it was swedged with a two die set, top and bottom, Nothing wrong with it. That's how we built all our rip cords. Cracks like you describe are actually very common on marine hard ware. They swedge cables in exactly the same way. salt water runs down the stays and gets into the lower end. I guess it corrodes and some how swells inside the hard ware causing cracks like that. That's how they fail. I have never actually seen it on a rip cord though.

Lee

Lee
lee@velocitysportswear.com
www.velocitysportswear.com

[councilman24 37]

Just for the record you might want to state that cracks = bad?

And now that you say that I think I've seen a crack like that in other swaged hardware also. Think maybe this one was over pressed? Looks like cable coming out of pin is compressed/narrowed more than normal.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[RiggerLee 61]

I thought the word failure was clear enough. I'd like to pull the thing and see the fail point. Should we start a pool? What's the buy in? Who's got a good tester? Do you think Sherman would pull it for us?

Lee

Lee
lee@velocitysportswear.com
www.velocitysportswear.com

[councilman24 37]

It was clear enough for me but some of these guys have to be hit over the head.

I just decided/realized the 20000 lb hydraulic home made cheapo tester I'm putting together can also do ripcords with a smaller scale and maybe an extension. Scale currently on order.

DeWolf has one of the torque wrench testers but don't know if he has a scale to insert for max reading. I was going to make one of these but realized the hydraulic one may work.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[JerryBaumchen 1,374]

Hi Terry,

Quote

DeWolf has one of the torque wrench testers

He's not the only one.



JerryBaumchen

PS)

Quote

a scale to insert for max reading

One would proably need to take readings at various increasing loads then use the last holding load value prior to the failure. Or buy a very expensive recording torque wrench, if such a thing exists.

[JohnSherman 1]

Quote

Do you think Sherman would pull it for us?

I think he would. Any time, no charge for any individual test. Guaranteed!

[councilman24 37]

Or rig up a max recording 600 lb scale in the load. Make up a cable with a ball and a loop on the other end to go in the cam and hook the scale between it and the handle since we're concerned about the pin not the ball.

Or let John do it if the owner is interested.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[theonlyski 8]

JohnSherman

Quote

Do you think Sherman would pull it for us?

I think he would. Any time, no charge for any individual test. Guaranteed!

I'm very happy that we still live in a world where manufacturers are willing to help out someone they don't know and have no obligation to help, all in the interest of keeping people safe.

Thank you, John.

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[JohnSherman 1]

To the OP:

I make ripcords and can identify the handles and pins by the tool marks, etc. If you would like to post a picture of the handle and its marking with the ball swadge visible, I will make an attempt to identify it.
Additionally if you do care to have it tested I will do it for you if you get it to the company. I anticipate a 24 houre turn around for the test.

If you do as others have said and load it to 600 pounds it will probably fail. The correct test is 300 pounds for 3 seconds, pin blade to ball. In as much as you pin blade has been trimmed the test is pin shank to ball. We have tooling for tests. It takes less than a minute.

[RedundantRigger 0]

Here are some more pictures.
We only have Gopros and a scanning machine so the quality has much to be desired. Working on finding someone with a good camera.

Markings on the handle:
"RI25H" or possibly" RI25II"
next to that is the TSO markings. I think it says " TSO 23C"
On the bottom part of the handle is a number that i guess is the batch nr. "0035"
On the other side of the handle "PL-97" is stamped inn.
Also there is a dent sort of next to it. A mark of somekind

The handle was used on a rig with RSL.

I appreciate your offer of testing the handle. I will ask the owner.
The handle has been replaced, but it would be interesting to test the handle anyway.

[mjosparky 4]

Check the packing data card and see if there is a notation on the Capewell SB-CW03-1. This would have been in July 2003. That may explain the hand engraved markings on the handle.

Sparky

http://www.pia.com/piapubs/ServiceBulletins/PIA_PIN_TechBulletinnical_71003Rev31.pdf

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[JerryBaumchen 1,374]

Hi Redundant,

The last the I knew, only Rigging Innovations used a ball with shank for their ripcords.

If anyone else is doing, I am not aware of it.

JerryBaumchen

[councilman24 37]

John,
Unless it's a pilot rig with a static line. Then it is 600 lbs. PIA TS-135 4.3.2.c.

"(c)
If the reserve ripcord is to be static lined
from an aircraft the reserve ripcord/static line, must
not fail under a straight tension test load of 600
-lbf (2668.9N) applied for not less than 3 seconds."

It was late but I knew it was 600lbs for something.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[JohnSherman 1]

Yeah, I figured you would bit on that. Another case of the uninformed, writing standard about which they know nothing. I know the origin of that number and it is wrong. The US Government standard is what it should be and always has been 300 pounds for 3 seconds. I am not excluding myself in the blame for this as I was there in the room when the 600 pound number was originally brought up discussed and adopted. I didn't know then what I know now and I probably voted for it. I am now the major supplier of ripcords and pins. In getting here I learned the science of the art and believe me 600 pound is not practical. The cop out is that Standards can be intermixed and not all call for 600 pounds.

[JohnSherman 1]

Quote

Here are some more pictures.

The handle is most definitely ours and the mark PL-97 verifies that. It also verifies that we supplied it without cable.
The cable has a ball shank swedge which we have the tooling for but rarely make. There are now several rig makers who have the roller type tooling for pins and ball shanks. We did not make any part of the cable or the pin or ball.
We did, back in 1997, supply ripcord handles to RI this appears to be one of those.

[JerryBaumchen 1,374]

Hi John,

Quote

I am not excluding myself in the blame for this as I was there in the room when the 600 pound number was originally brought up discussed and adopted. I didn't know then what I know now and I probably voted for it.

I was there also and now wish I had opposed it. I, as you, disagree with the 600 lb req'ment.



JerryBaumchen

[yoink 321]

I'd just like to say that as a non-rigger I LOVE these types of thread. They're absolutely fascinating.

Thanks for the insights!

[councilman24 37]

You ought to see the PM's.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[RiggerLee 61]

From time to time we would have some young jumper get lost and wonder in to the loft when we were all there. They often left white faced and shaking. I always told them that if they wanted to fell warm and fuzzy about there gear and sleep well at night, not to hang in the loft with the riggers.

Lee

Lee
lee@velocitysportswear.com
www.velocitysportswear.com