trmnljnky 0 #26 May 3, 2002 A Raven has saved my ass a couple of times.(2 cutaways) It makes a great reserve.Byron Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #27 May 3, 2002 > He may have had 500 hop-n-pops from altitude in which case he has plenty > of canopy time.As the landing is the part that is both challenging and dangerous, flying around at 4000 feet for another hour does not really do much for your landing skills. Most pilots consider takeoffs and landings to be the best metric for currency at landings - a 4 hour cross country simply does not do much for your ability to land.Bottom line is that he had 500 landings. It doesn't make too much difference if they were swoops after a 4-way, pulling at 2000 feet, or if they were swoops after 6000 foot hop and pops. What he _did_ on the landings, of course, matters a great deal.-bill von Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #28 May 3, 2002 I do like to practice landing on clouds whenever I get a chance. That's very cool..... Popping up over the tops is fun.... ***Anticipating Flames*****Peace~Lindseysome days it's just not worth gnawing through the strapshttp://home.earthlink.net/~linzwalley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflyguy 0 #29 May 3, 2002 My mom always said not to start talking with "well"WellWatch this years Blade Raid Video, you will see that it don't matter who's canopy you fly, if the wind does what it does, you are a down in a heap of flesh and nylon. Yes, scary as hell. But if you make the choice to fly in gusty wheather, It could be you. Remember, it is a bunch of flimsy nylon over your head. It depends on life the way the designer designed it. We live in this world, it does what It wants. Sometimes, it aint what you want. Then you die.If you don't like that, learn to play checkers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #30 May 3, 2002 Thx Bill.. I though I was one of the only other ones thinking a xbraced loaded above 2 at 500 jumps was a "bit aggressive"...RemsterMuff 914 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #31 May 3, 2002 Billvon, I disagree.. I learn TONS by wrenching my canopy up high. I could't disagree more.. Of the hop-n-pops I have from altitude I have maybe 2 have been cross country. The rest studying the performance and reaction of my canopy. Blue Skies ..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildblue 7 #32 May 3, 2002 Quote would dis-agree. I have found that at higher wing loadings, canopies are pressureized more and more resistant to collapsing, so an advantage of "pocket rockets" are being able to handle turbulence better.Well, here's my thought on that (and I may just be talking straight out my arse)Yes, a highly loaded canopy should be more rigid, however, it's still a tiny wing. If the turbulence is bad enough to affect it just slightly, it's more apt to go all to hell a lot faster, you had less holding you in the air to begin with.You don't scare me! I got chunks of guys like you in my stool!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookit 0 #33 May 3, 2002 QuoteI learn TONS by wrenching my canopy up high. Doubtless. However, IMO, we don't learn tons about LANDING our canopies up high because we don't have a stationary point of reference like the ground. I agree wholeheartedly that we can learn some invaluable information about the characteristics of our canopy by trying different inputs up high and getting a feel for how it reacts to each but, IMO, the best way to learn to land a canopy better is to practice the landings themselves.I agree that 2.1 is an aggressive wing-loading for someone with 500 jumps however this person could have been a very quick learner as well as extremely current. Interestingly the incident report (regarding the incident in VA in March) does not state whether or not he was flying downwind of any obstacles that could have generated turbulence. I feel it's a difficult thing to make a case against the canopy design of the Xaos based on the limited info available on this incident.Blues,Trey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #34 May 3, 2002 >Billvon, I disagree.. I learn TONS by wrenching my canopy up high. I could't >disagree more.. Of the hop-n-pops I have from altitude I have maybe 2 have been> cross country. The rest studying the performance and reaction of my canopy.I have no doubt of this. You can learn a lot about how your canopy flies by flying it. However, the only really reliable way to learn how your canopy lands is to land it. With a 2:1 loaded canopy and a toggle swoop, the difference between a good landing and a trip to the hospital is a few feet. You can't practice that at 2000 feet, look at your altimeter, and say "Ah, I planed out at 1721 feet, therefore I would have survived the landing."Going back to flying - would you want to land with a pilot who had thousands of hours of cross-country time, but had landed only a few times? Especially if there were problems (like severe turbulence?)-bill von Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookit 0 #35 May 3, 2002 QuoteI have no doubt of this. You can learn a lot about how your canopy flies by flying it. However, the only really reliable way to learn how your canopy lands is to land it. Hmmm...something about great minds.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites hookit 0 #36 May 3, 2002 Hey, everyone, look! I've been promoted! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skycat 0 #37 May 3, 2002 *cough* post whore *cough* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites MrHixxx 0 #38 May 3, 2002 Maybe this is a little off subject. But isn't ground effect going to change the aerodynamics of a landing when compared with a turn up high? So a turn up high may not be such a good indicator of what a canopy will do down low...-Jon"Sous ma tub, Dr. Suess ma tub" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,991 #39 May 3, 2002 >But isn't ground effect going to change the aerodynamics of a landing >when compared with a turn up high? Definitely, although I think two even bigger issues are:1. altitude perception; where to begin the turn. Seems to be the #1 killer lately - people doing toggle turns too low for whatever reason.2. turbulence. Much different at 20 feet than at 2000.-bill von Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,991 #40 May 3, 2002 >My mom always said not to start talking with "well"And my mom always asked me "If Harry jumped off a bridge, would you do it too?">Watch this years Blade Raid Video, you will see that it don't matter who's> canopy you fly, if the wind does what it does, you are a down in a heap of flesh> and nylon. Yes, scary as hell. But if you make the choice to fly in gusty> wheather, It could be you. Two comments on that:1. You don't need gusty weather to get rotors. I've seen some really horrendous collapses in strong steady winds.2. While a bad rotor can always get you (got me once) some canopies are, without a doubt, better than others in dealing with bad conditions. Going back 7-8 years, Novas killed more people than Monarchs in turbulent conditions. Given that, it's worthwhile to determine which of the ultra-HP canopies on the market today are more stable than others.-bill von Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rhino 0 #41 May 3, 2002 Doubtless??? I have 350+ jumps and ALL standup landings.. Please don't try to tell me it doesn't do any good up high. You can learn about timing, feel, canopy response time.. What you can learn up high is PRICELESS. Blue Skies ..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skycat 0 #42 May 3, 2002 I can think of one landing that should have broken both of your femurs last year. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ChromeBoy 0 #43 May 3, 2002 QuoteAnd my mom always asked me "If Harry jumped off a bridge, would you do it too?"But if Harry jumped off a bridge you would too if you had your base rig Bill. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rhino 0 #44 May 3, 2002 I remember trust me.. I still stood it up.. Have the video. For me that was a GREAT incident. I took a step back and learned from it. Blue Skies ..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freeflir29 0 #45 May 3, 2002 QuoteI can think of one landing that should have broken both of your femurs last year.Doh!!!!!! Well...all stand up except for that one....."It's all about the BOOBIES!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rhino 0 #46 May 3, 2002 Like I said I landed on my feet. Stood it up, flaired the canopy and all.. I see people hip check all the time and still land on their feet. That's a standup landing isn't it? Yes, if the ground wasn't wet that day I would have most definitely broke both my legs. Well. Possibly anyways. Instead my upper body went forward, the canopy flew back up in the air as I was in full OH SHIT flair and I finished the landing without a scratch.. My knees hurt for a while but I was fine. I was doing something I should have not been doing under a canopy that wasn't designed to do it. The Triathlon150. Blue Skies ..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freeflir29 0 #47 May 3, 2002 QuoteThat's a standup landing isn't it?Oh...yes...the first bounce rule is in full effect!! QuoteMy knees hurt for a while but I was fine. I need to meet a chic with this attitude. "It's all about the BOOBIES!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rhino 0 #48 May 3, 2002 I didn't use the f-word damnit!! I didn't do it!!No beer!!! lol Blue Skies ..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,991 #49 May 3, 2002 >But if Harry jumped off a bridge you would too if you had your base rig Bill. Xactly.-bill von Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 2 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
hookit 0 #36 May 3, 2002 Hey, everyone, look! I've been promoted! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skycat 0 #37 May 3, 2002 *cough* post whore *cough* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MrHixxx 0 #38 May 3, 2002 Maybe this is a little off subject. But isn't ground effect going to change the aerodynamics of a landing when compared with a turn up high? So a turn up high may not be such a good indicator of what a canopy will do down low...-Jon"Sous ma tub, Dr. Suess ma tub" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #39 May 3, 2002 >But isn't ground effect going to change the aerodynamics of a landing >when compared with a turn up high? Definitely, although I think two even bigger issues are:1. altitude perception; where to begin the turn. Seems to be the #1 killer lately - people doing toggle turns too low for whatever reason.2. turbulence. Much different at 20 feet than at 2000.-bill von Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #40 May 3, 2002 >My mom always said not to start talking with "well"And my mom always asked me "If Harry jumped off a bridge, would you do it too?">Watch this years Blade Raid Video, you will see that it don't matter who's> canopy you fly, if the wind does what it does, you are a down in a heap of flesh> and nylon. Yes, scary as hell. But if you make the choice to fly in gusty> wheather, It could be you. Two comments on that:1. You don't need gusty weather to get rotors. I've seen some really horrendous collapses in strong steady winds.2. While a bad rotor can always get you (got me once) some canopies are, without a doubt, better than others in dealing with bad conditions. Going back 7-8 years, Novas killed more people than Monarchs in turbulent conditions. Given that, it's worthwhile to determine which of the ultra-HP canopies on the market today are more stable than others.-bill von Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #41 May 3, 2002 Doubtless??? I have 350+ jumps and ALL standup landings.. Please don't try to tell me it doesn't do any good up high. You can learn about timing, feel, canopy response time.. What you can learn up high is PRICELESS. Blue Skies ..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skycat 0 #42 May 3, 2002 I can think of one landing that should have broken both of your femurs last year. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChromeBoy 0 #43 May 3, 2002 QuoteAnd my mom always asked me "If Harry jumped off a bridge, would you do it too?"But if Harry jumped off a bridge you would too if you had your base rig Bill. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #44 May 3, 2002 I remember trust me.. I still stood it up.. Have the video. For me that was a GREAT incident. I took a step back and learned from it. Blue Skies ..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #45 May 3, 2002 QuoteI can think of one landing that should have broken both of your femurs last year.Doh!!!!!! Well...all stand up except for that one....."It's all about the BOOBIES!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #46 May 3, 2002 Like I said I landed on my feet. Stood it up, flaired the canopy and all.. I see people hip check all the time and still land on their feet. That's a standup landing isn't it? Yes, if the ground wasn't wet that day I would have most definitely broke both my legs. Well. Possibly anyways. Instead my upper body went forward, the canopy flew back up in the air as I was in full OH SHIT flair and I finished the landing without a scratch.. My knees hurt for a while but I was fine. I was doing something I should have not been doing under a canopy that wasn't designed to do it. The Triathlon150. Blue Skies ..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #47 May 3, 2002 QuoteThat's a standup landing isn't it?Oh...yes...the first bounce rule is in full effect!! QuoteMy knees hurt for a while but I was fine. I need to meet a chic with this attitude. "It's all about the BOOBIES!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #48 May 3, 2002 I didn't use the f-word damnit!! I didn't do it!!No beer!!! lol Blue Skies ..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #49 May 3, 2002 >But if Harry jumped off a bridge you would too if you had your base rig Bill. Xactly.-bill von Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
