Relining a stiletto 150

[psf 1]

Does anyone know where I can find the recommended distance for the cascades when Relining a stiletto 150? I we t to pd and have the chart they supply for line length but can't find recommended distance for cas ades

ignorance is not bliss

[Quagmirian 40]

You'll just have to measure them from an existing canopy.

[mjosparky 4]

Quagmirian

If he has spectra lines it might be hard to know what the original measurement was. They tend to shrink from heat.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[psf 1]

I have measured three others and they all differ by an inch or so. Not sure if that is due to shrink or accepted variance. Also noted that a3-5 b3-5 cascades are. Of the same. Ie ab3 cascade if longer then ab4 cascade. Not sure if there is a direct proportion the line should be changed by. Any help appreciated.

ignorance is not bliss

[angryelf 0]

Disclaimer: This is what I've done-not saying it's recommended.

I have built linesets for both my velos and a BASE Canopy. I borrowed a NEW lineset from someone else to measure off of for all three.

Although I had HMA and Vectran lines on them originally (The Velos), there was a ton of discrepancy b/t new linesets from the factory and the old ones on them. (On the outer D's almost 2.5"). Replacing the lines made the canopies fly way nicer. I can only imagine it would be drastically more pronounced on a Microlined canopy with lots of slider heat over a period of jumps.

I'm sure some of my measurements on my linesets were up to 1" off, 400 jumps on my canopies and they have been fine. As long as the measurements scale together I (personally) think that there is some wiggle room for errors in length. The canopy may not perform at it's peak-but it will work.

In my experience with the above canopies the cascading portions are the same length (B's & D's), but that doesn't mean thats always the case-ask one of the guys on here who is really sharp on canopy design.

-Harry

"Sometimes you eat the bar,
and well-sometimes the bar eats you..."

[ChrisD 0]

psf

Does anyone know where I can find the recommended distance for the cascades when Relining a stiletto 150? I we t to pd and have the chart they supply for line length but can't find recommended distance for cas ades

I found this link from "P"s book:

parachute Manual pg. 272, 273 See comment A at 7.26

C

maybe it can help , I don't know, just putting it out there cause no one else has yet,...

But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

[masterrigger1 2]

Quote

Although I had HMA and Vectran lines on them originally (The Velos), there was a ton of discrepancy b/t new linesets from the factory and the old ones on them. (On the outer D's almost 2.5").

Vectran or any of the Aramids or Paramids will not elongate 2.5".

Usually about 1/4' of elongation takes place during the life of a standard line set.
Someone else may have made the previous line sets though.


MEL

Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC
www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

[angryelf 0]

The lineset on my 103 was made by another rigger. The lineset on my 96 was in awful condition and (I'm guessing here) from the early 2000's. My theory is that PD updated the measurements a bit. Point I was trying make is that scaling 1"-2" hasn't made my Velos crazy. There have definitely been improvements copying the latest from PD, but the wing flew and is flying with some big variables between linesets. Not sure if that would translate over to the newer canopies like the Peregrine and JPX...

-Harry

"Sometimes you eat the bar,
and well-sometimes the bar eats you..."

[masterrigger1 2]

Quote

The lineset on my 103 was made by another rigger. The lineset on my 96 was in awful condition and (I'm guessing here) from the early 2000's. My theory is that PD updated the measurements a bit.

They actually have not changed that much in the last 12 years are so. Maybe a 1/8" or so here and there on a couple of different sizes.

Quote

Point I was trying make is that scaling 1"-2" hasn't made my Velos crazy.

I would strongly suggest not to advise anyone to make a line set for a high performance canopy "+/- an inch or two...".

Just my two cents worth. This is coming from someone that has built, tested, and jumped thousands of line sets.

MEL

Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC
www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

[riggerrob 643]

masterrigger1

Quote

The lineset on my 103 was made by another rigger. The lineset on my 96 was in awful condition and (I'm guessing here) from the early 2000's. My theory is that PD updated the measurements a bit.

They actually have not changed that much in the last 12 years are so. Maybe a 1/8" or so here and there on a couple of different sizes.

***
Point I was trying make is that scaling 1"-2" hasn't made my Velos crazy.

I would strongly suggest not to advise anyone to make a line set for a high performance canopy "+/- an inch or two...".

Just my two cents worth. This is coming from someone that has built, tested, and jumped thousands of line sets.

MEL

..................................................................................

The tolerance is more like "maximum 1/2 inch left to right" but most manufacturers get the difference close to zero, on new canopies. By the time the difference exceeds 3 inches, you are due for new lines.

You will only get meaningful numbers by measuring NEW line sets.

[jonathan.newman 1]

The manufacturer gives us enough information to determine if a canopy is out of trim, but not enough to build a lineset from scratch.

If you want to build your own lineset, you either have to reverse engineer a new set, or make some guesses. Maybe you can visit a loft that makes linesets and get some hands-on with them.

I retrimmed a stilleto 135 that had lines that shrank almost 5 inches max. I picked out the bartacks, returned the overall measurement to trim spec, and re-tacked it. The canopy opened and flew great. I didn't mess with the cascade measurement, so I know some of those had to be off. But in the case of this canopy, it flew fine.

If you want to do some trial and error, you could use the Parachute Labs no-bartack fingertrap method and have an easy way to adjust your cascade point.

Have fun,
Jonathan

[riggerrob 643]

The simple answer is to buy a new line-set from Performance Designs.
That will save you a week of head-scratching and ensure that you new lines are the correct lengths.
I quit cutting my own line-sets when PD started making elliptical canopies. The tolerances on tiny canopies are tighter than I can eye-ball.
I never was very good at math.

[leon.hill 1]

^^^^This, what RiggerBob said. For what it takes in time and cost involved in having a rigger manufacture a set from scratch, you can a line set from the manufacturer and have your rigger install it and be more certain it is within the manufacturers specifications.

[psf 1]

I agree the time/cost it makes great sense just to pay someone to do it for me. That however does nothing to further my knowledge/understanding of the gear. It's winter here in PA, I've got two rigs, and time. This is just a personal project that will make me feel like I have accomplished something instead of just ignorantly handing it to someone else and ask them to do the work for me.

But yes, it is economically no advantage for me to do this. And time is required. But in the end, I will be jumping my line set, and have greater knowledge by doing so.

ignorance is not bliss

[Quagmirian 40]

Exactly.