Levin 0 #26 April 21, 2002 QuoteOk, so I fill out the million page waiver.Show my reserve repack thingy.And my USPA membership is expired. Yeah, I knew that. So?So? So- You have to pay $45 to renew it to jump here..........I havent decided what I think about that yet..... but I couldnt jump there after the long drive. I came home and went to bed.ann a temporary membership is only $8. you should not have left. i put myself on that load to jump with you. i took you off when you obviously weren't going to make it so that you didn't get charged for it. i would have bought your temp membership and jump had i known what was going on before you left. andree was disappointed that you left. i'm sure you could have gotten the temp membership and paid him back the $8 later. no reason to leave. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dove 0 #27 April 21, 2002 I don't think most people would disagree with the fact that USPA is an incredible organisation that does a lot for us. And I am more than happy to pay membership for all the benefits it provides. I just think what happened to Ann sucks.. to go all the way out there with a current logbook, up-to-date equipment and a need for air and to not be able to get it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jessica 0 #28 April 21, 2002 QuoteThen Phreezone was the so cool nothing bothered him, James Dean style cat out of the bunch. Nothing fazed him and he stayed close to his fellow black haired feline.I don't know about this "James Dean" crap -- that kitten seemed pretty shy at first.But he turned out to be really fun to pet. The door is openWe are way the fuck up hereMight as well get out.~ FallingMarc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgoper 0 #29 April 21, 2002 **I just think what happened to Ann sucks.. to go all the way out there with a current logbook, up-to-date equipment and a need for air and to not be able to get it.**Dove:how do you know she showed up with a current logbook? were you there? this is my home D.Z. so they play by the rules, you got a problem with that? levin covered this in his posts, and this is no offense to ann, but i believe you DON'T know all the facts. the U.S.P.A. is what it is, anybody that don't like it, can go to the U.K. (i guess) we ALL have to follow the rules, no exceptions. just my opinion, nothing more, nothing less, not even remotely aimed to a "flame" war. this D.Z. would never do anything to turn away any customer, providing they were within limits, i know first hand.Richard"Gravity Is My Friend" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #30 April 22, 2002 Yeah... I know Ann's log book is current... I watched her jump twice on Wednesday. I also know that non USPA DZ's kick some serious ass.... My home one is one and one I was just at last week was one.... they are the most layed back places you can think of and no one is worried about being in the "Good old boys Club". The DZO's at both places kick some serious rear and I love both of the places.I'm letting my membership expire this year since Its not required to jump at my home DZ or at my new second home DZ.. After WFFC I could care less if I have a membership.... Here's to Non Member DZ's....... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rgoper 0 #31 April 22, 2002 **Yeah... I know Ann's log book is current...**please consider that this is NOT a personal attack on ANYONE. but due to ann's own admissions in this very forum, she does NOT have a current logbook.(if you have 325+ jumps, are you NOT current? and licensed?) that is what i'm basing my facts on, her own account, not mine. she stated that her logbook was not current because of lost pro-tracs, her words, not mine. again, this is just to set the facts straight for SDH. nothing more, nothing less. Richard"Gravity Is My Friend" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dove 0 #32 April 22, 2002 Quoteplease consider that this is NOT a personal attack on ANYONE. Yeah - except you started your initial post with "Dove" so that makes it personal. I never attacked the dz. .Just said it sucked that it happened to her. And I guess I trust that Ann isn't lying when she posts her jumps. Sorry for being sympathetic to a friend. I think you need to lighten up - I never bashed your precious dz. But thanks for taking the time to bash me.dove Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rgoper 0 #33 April 22, 2002 dove:sometimes when a poster replies, they don't always go up to the first post, and respond, you just happned to be at the bottom when i posted, so i did a "reply" instead of going all the way back up to the top. seriously, no harm was intended, nor was anybody to be flamed, defamed, etc...please, if you don't consider anything else, consider that. peace my friend.Richard"Gravity Is My Friend" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dove 0 #34 April 22, 2002 I hear ya Richard. But you didn't just post to me - you typed my name at the top of your post. So it did feel personal. I really am not super hot about this topic. Just feeling Ann's frustration. That's all. Now leave me alone or I will flap my wings all over you and get feathers in your mouth! dove Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rgoper 0 #35 April 22, 2002 if you know me at all, you'll know this does not intimidate me, so you can stop now. as i've said before, no flame war intended, so please, i'm asking nicely, in a gentlemanly sort of way, end it here. thanking you in advance for your kind understanding.........................Richard"Gravity Is My Friend" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhreeZone 20 #36 April 22, 2002 You know the funny thing about log books.... I'm yet to be asked to have mine looked at by the 6 DZ's I've traveled to. None cared my currency level as along as my reserve was in date and I had a licence number.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Jessica 0 #37 April 22, 2002 Oh wow, I didn't realize she was LITERALLY THREATENING TO FLAP FEATHERS IN YOUR MOUTH!!*I* thought she was OBVIOUSLY KIDDING!Silly me!!!!! The door is openWe are way the fuck up hereMight as well get out.~ FallingMarc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Michele 1 #38 April 22, 2002 Yeah, Dove, stop joking with him, and by all means, stop telling him you understand his position and have no additional issue other than what you posted to him....that it felt personal to you, and that you accept his explanation!Yeah, Dove, stop already! LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Ciels and Pinks-MicheleIf you really want to, you can seize the day; if you really want to, you can fly away...~enya~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rgoper 0 #39 April 22, 2002 Phree:how can you possibly have a license number, if your NOT a member of the USPA, since they govern the licenses as well? i'm befuddled........................Richard"Gravity Is My Friend" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhreeZone 20 #40 April 22, 2002 I got a licence number and a membership then I'm not going to renew the membership when it expires. The licence number is mine for life, and all it really proves is that i did X jumps.... and some bigway stuff...I got C-31712 and then I'm done paying my dues... I'd rather ger Skydiving the mag, and then support my DZ's then some program I totally disagree with...I'll renew my membership just to revote for Mullins in the next election and then I'll let it lapse again if things don't chage with the Group member program.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rgoper 0 #41 April 22, 2002 Phree:i'm missing the boat here. if your jumping at a USPA affiliated facility, how are you going to jump without a USPA membership? do you ever plan on coaching, being an aff, afp, iad, td1 or anything else, hard road to hold witout a uspa membership my friend, do the research in the SIM............Richard"Gravity Is My Friend" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhreeZone 20 #42 April 22, 2002 Thats the kicker.... i jump at a non USPA DZ and my second home is a Non-USPA DZ too. As far as ratings... Manufactors issue tandem and at a non-USPA DZ you don't have to have a USPA rating to teach... Hell... at USPA DZ's you can get the STA to sign you off to teach most things....As the DZO at the one said..... "F%@& the USPA....." Have I mentioned how much I like him? And as for anything else... I've probally memorized the SIM and the Comp manuals so I know all the things they cover, I've also read the bylaws that the USPA has and lets just say... they don't follow what is the rules they approved.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rgoper 0 #43 April 22, 2002 Phree:so, what your saying is this, you are a USPA member for now, but later choose not to be? will this action NOT inhibit your ability to jump at USPA affiliated DZ's? will it not also eliminate you from certain competitions at DZ's that are USPA affilliated? i'm getting the vibe from you that you are a "non-conformists" nothing wrong with that, that's your personal choice, but wouldn't it be better for you, and everyone else if you were a member of the USPA?Richard"Gravity Is My Friend" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhreeZone 20 #44 April 22, 2002 Like i said... I don't like the GM program and my 2 DZ's that I jump at now and will jump at in the future are a non-member... and personally... i can go with out jumping at DZ's i don't like so I just limited my DZ's by a few but that still leaves me a few to jump at... like my home, San Marcos, Lodi and a ton of 182 and private DZ's across the nation....If the USPA scraps the GM program then they get my support again... till then.... sorry everyone else, your going to need to pick up my portion of the membership fees since I'm not paying them.....AOPA is getting my money instead since they actually seem to do a lot more for avation then anything else....As for being USPA... Jumpers jumped before the USPA , jump today with out the USPA and will continute to jump with out the USPA... It just sucks that its maditory to jump at some places... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diverdriver 5 #45 April 22, 2002 Who says he has to travel to other DZs? Maybe the two NON-USPA DZs he's mentioned are all he needs. And he's right. A USPA license if for life. A license never expires. So, if he wants to compete somwhere then he can do a temporary membership for a reduced rate rather than pay the full membership rate that he obviously doesn't need.Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rgoper 0 #46 April 22, 2002 **It just sucks that its maditory to jump at some places...**yeah, it sucks that we have to have driver's licenses as well, doesn't it? damn the DOT and DPSOA for requiring that. i'll just bet there's a few things there that everybody dissagree with as well, but having the license is a "nessessary evil" where would it stop? how long under this kind of mentality before we have pilots, and DZ's not governed at all? hell, let's do away with the presidency! in the end, like it or not, rules are rules, and it's best to conform to them, and adhere to the're protocol.Richard"Gravity Is My Friend" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rgoper 0 #47 April 22, 2002 **So, if he wants to compete somwhere then he can do a temporary membership for a reduced rate rather than pay the full membership rate that he obviously doesn't need.**Chris:that's a "double standard" yeah, if i need to, i'll buy a temp membership, but when i don't need them F**k them. that's rediculous, and ludricrous at best. good thing you don't feel the same way about the FAA........................Richard"Gravity Is My Friend" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wildblue 7 #48 April 22, 2002 Actually, a license does have an 'expiration date' on the card.Quotebut when i don't need them F**k them. that's rediculous, and ludricrous at bestI don't think it's rediculous at all. He doesn't want to support the organization, he doesn't believe the benefits it gives are worth his money. He'll get a temp membership when someplace requires it to compete or something - what's wrong with that? He's voting with his wallet.Chris *can't* feel that way about the FAA. Now if you said the AOPA, then you might be able to argue (although I doubt it, I've never heard a bad thing about the AOPA)Generally speaking, you aren't learning much when your mouth is moving Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diverdriver 5 #49 April 22, 2002 It's not rediculous. It's the system that USPA set up and if that's how he wants to deal with it he can. USPA is a VOLUNTARY organization. Just like AOPA. Your comparison to my following FAA rules is invalid. AOPA does not set FARs. In kind, USPA can only set forth "Guidelines". Of which, I happen to think that all jumpers and DZs should follow them whether they are a GM or not. But the GM program is very useless for the members of USPA. So, if Phree wants to protest the GM program in this manner by not renewing his membership then he has that right. He does not need to be a member at the NON-GM DZs he jumps at. Those NON-GM DZs could require USPA individual membership if they want to. I don't think I ever read Phree saying that he wouldn't follow the safety rules of skydiving. He just doesn't like the GM program. I also seem to remember him saying that he would rejoin if the GM program went away.So, tieing his USPA membership to him following safety rules for skydiving isn't proper. Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites FallingMarc 0 #50 April 22, 2002 Quotein the end, like it or not, rules are rules, and it's best to conform to them, and adhere to the're protocolI heartily disagree! I follow the rules I agree with, and I don't follow the rules I think are pointless and dumb(to an extent). I don't run red lights. That will get you(or someone else) killed. I don't drive drunk. Again, that kills people. Do I drive between 45 and 65 on the highways here in IL? No. Especially not if I'm in a hurry. Who does it hurt? If I get ticketed, then it's my own problem. Other than that, I see no reason to follow that rule.We can do a lot of cool things skydiving, because we are pretty self-regulated. That means we have the responsibility to make our own decisions to not do stupid things. If we just handed over all the decisions to the government, we would lose that privilege, and our sport would be lessened because of it.M Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 2 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
rgoper 0 #31 April 22, 2002 **Yeah... I know Ann's log book is current...**please consider that this is NOT a personal attack on ANYONE. but due to ann's own admissions in this very forum, she does NOT have a current logbook.(if you have 325+ jumps, are you NOT current? and licensed?) that is what i'm basing my facts on, her own account, not mine. she stated that her logbook was not current because of lost pro-tracs, her words, not mine. again, this is just to set the facts straight for SDH. nothing more, nothing less. Richard"Gravity Is My Friend" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dove 0 #32 April 22, 2002 Quoteplease consider that this is NOT a personal attack on ANYONE. Yeah - except you started your initial post with "Dove" so that makes it personal. I never attacked the dz. .Just said it sucked that it happened to her. And I guess I trust that Ann isn't lying when she posts her jumps. Sorry for being sympathetic to a friend. I think you need to lighten up - I never bashed your precious dz. But thanks for taking the time to bash me.dove Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgoper 0 #33 April 22, 2002 dove:sometimes when a poster replies, they don't always go up to the first post, and respond, you just happned to be at the bottom when i posted, so i did a "reply" instead of going all the way back up to the top. seriously, no harm was intended, nor was anybody to be flamed, defamed, etc...please, if you don't consider anything else, consider that. peace my friend.Richard"Gravity Is My Friend" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dove 0 #34 April 22, 2002 I hear ya Richard. But you didn't just post to me - you typed my name at the top of your post. So it did feel personal. I really am not super hot about this topic. Just feeling Ann's frustration. That's all. Now leave me alone or I will flap my wings all over you and get feathers in your mouth! dove Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgoper 0 #35 April 22, 2002 if you know me at all, you'll know this does not intimidate me, so you can stop now. as i've said before, no flame war intended, so please, i'm asking nicely, in a gentlemanly sort of way, end it here. thanking you in advance for your kind understanding.........................Richard"Gravity Is My Friend" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #36 April 22, 2002 You know the funny thing about log books.... I'm yet to be asked to have mine looked at by the 6 DZ's I've traveled to. None cared my currency level as along as my reserve was in date and I had a licence number.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jessica 0 #37 April 22, 2002 Oh wow, I didn't realize she was LITERALLY THREATENING TO FLAP FEATHERS IN YOUR MOUTH!!*I* thought she was OBVIOUSLY KIDDING!Silly me!!!!! The door is openWe are way the fuck up hereMight as well get out.~ FallingMarc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #38 April 22, 2002 Yeah, Dove, stop joking with him, and by all means, stop telling him you understand his position and have no additional issue other than what you posted to him....that it felt personal to you, and that you accept his explanation!Yeah, Dove, stop already! LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Ciels and Pinks-MicheleIf you really want to, you can seize the day; if you really want to, you can fly away...~enya~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgoper 0 #39 April 22, 2002 Phree:how can you possibly have a license number, if your NOT a member of the USPA, since they govern the licenses as well? i'm befuddled........................Richard"Gravity Is My Friend" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #40 April 22, 2002 I got a licence number and a membership then I'm not going to renew the membership when it expires. The licence number is mine for life, and all it really proves is that i did X jumps.... and some bigway stuff...I got C-31712 and then I'm done paying my dues... I'd rather ger Skydiving the mag, and then support my DZ's then some program I totally disagree with...I'll renew my membership just to revote for Mullins in the next election and then I'll let it lapse again if things don't chage with the Group member program.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgoper 0 #41 April 22, 2002 Phree:i'm missing the boat here. if your jumping at a USPA affiliated facility, how are you going to jump without a USPA membership? do you ever plan on coaching, being an aff, afp, iad, td1 or anything else, hard road to hold witout a uspa membership my friend, do the research in the SIM............Richard"Gravity Is My Friend" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #42 April 22, 2002 Thats the kicker.... i jump at a non USPA DZ and my second home is a Non-USPA DZ too. As far as ratings... Manufactors issue tandem and at a non-USPA DZ you don't have to have a USPA rating to teach... Hell... at USPA DZ's you can get the STA to sign you off to teach most things....As the DZO at the one said..... "F%@& the USPA....." Have I mentioned how much I like him? And as for anything else... I've probally memorized the SIM and the Comp manuals so I know all the things they cover, I've also read the bylaws that the USPA has and lets just say... they don't follow what is the rules they approved.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgoper 0 #43 April 22, 2002 Phree:so, what your saying is this, you are a USPA member for now, but later choose not to be? will this action NOT inhibit your ability to jump at USPA affiliated DZ's? will it not also eliminate you from certain competitions at DZ's that are USPA affilliated? i'm getting the vibe from you that you are a "non-conformists" nothing wrong with that, that's your personal choice, but wouldn't it be better for you, and everyone else if you were a member of the USPA?Richard"Gravity Is My Friend" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #44 April 22, 2002 Like i said... I don't like the GM program and my 2 DZ's that I jump at now and will jump at in the future are a non-member... and personally... i can go with out jumping at DZ's i don't like so I just limited my DZ's by a few but that still leaves me a few to jump at... like my home, San Marcos, Lodi and a ton of 182 and private DZ's across the nation....If the USPA scraps the GM program then they get my support again... till then.... sorry everyone else, your going to need to pick up my portion of the membership fees since I'm not paying them.....AOPA is getting my money instead since they actually seem to do a lot more for avation then anything else....As for being USPA... Jumpers jumped before the USPA , jump today with out the USPA and will continute to jump with out the USPA... It just sucks that its maditory to jump at some places... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 5 #45 April 22, 2002 Who says he has to travel to other DZs? Maybe the two NON-USPA DZs he's mentioned are all he needs. And he's right. A USPA license if for life. A license never expires. So, if he wants to compete somwhere then he can do a temporary membership for a reduced rate rather than pay the full membership rate that he obviously doesn't need.Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgoper 0 #46 April 22, 2002 **It just sucks that its maditory to jump at some places...**yeah, it sucks that we have to have driver's licenses as well, doesn't it? damn the DOT and DPSOA for requiring that. i'll just bet there's a few things there that everybody dissagree with as well, but having the license is a "nessessary evil" where would it stop? how long under this kind of mentality before we have pilots, and DZ's not governed at all? hell, let's do away with the presidency! in the end, like it or not, rules are rules, and it's best to conform to them, and adhere to the're protocol.Richard"Gravity Is My Friend" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgoper 0 #47 April 22, 2002 **So, if he wants to compete somwhere then he can do a temporary membership for a reduced rate rather than pay the full membership rate that he obviously doesn't need.**Chris:that's a "double standard" yeah, if i need to, i'll buy a temp membership, but when i don't need them F**k them. that's rediculous, and ludricrous at best. good thing you don't feel the same way about the FAA........................Richard"Gravity Is My Friend" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildblue 7 #48 April 22, 2002 Actually, a license does have an 'expiration date' on the card.Quotebut when i don't need them F**k them. that's rediculous, and ludricrous at bestI don't think it's rediculous at all. He doesn't want to support the organization, he doesn't believe the benefits it gives are worth his money. He'll get a temp membership when someplace requires it to compete or something - what's wrong with that? He's voting with his wallet.Chris *can't* feel that way about the FAA. Now if you said the AOPA, then you might be able to argue (although I doubt it, I've never heard a bad thing about the AOPA)Generally speaking, you aren't learning much when your mouth is moving Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 5 #49 April 22, 2002 It's not rediculous. It's the system that USPA set up and if that's how he wants to deal with it he can. USPA is a VOLUNTARY organization. Just like AOPA. Your comparison to my following FAA rules is invalid. AOPA does not set FARs. In kind, USPA can only set forth "Guidelines". Of which, I happen to think that all jumpers and DZs should follow them whether they are a GM or not. But the GM program is very useless for the members of USPA. So, if Phree wants to protest the GM program in this manner by not renewing his membership then he has that right. He does not need to be a member at the NON-GM DZs he jumps at. Those NON-GM DZs could require USPA individual membership if they want to. I don't think I ever read Phree saying that he wouldn't follow the safety rules of skydiving. He just doesn't like the GM program. I also seem to remember him saying that he would rejoin if the GM program went away.So, tieing his USPA membership to him following safety rules for skydiving isn't proper. Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallingMarc 0 #50 April 22, 2002 Quotein the end, like it or not, rules are rules, and it's best to conform to them, and adhere to the're protocolI heartily disagree! I follow the rules I agree with, and I don't follow the rules I think are pointless and dumb(to an extent). I don't run red lights. That will get you(or someone else) killed. I don't drive drunk. Again, that kills people. Do I drive between 45 and 65 on the highways here in IL? No. Especially not if I'm in a hurry. Who does it hurt? If I get ticketed, then it's my own problem. Other than that, I see no reason to follow that rule.We can do a lot of cool things skydiving, because we are pretty self-regulated. That means we have the responsibility to make our own decisions to not do stupid things. If we just handed over all the decisions to the government, we would lose that privilege, and our sport would be lessened because of it.M Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
