What Was Your Canopy Downsizing Progression?

[skybytch 273]

Pammi - Apology(s) accepted... and check your PM's.

Quote

I promise everyone else...I'm shutting up on this.

Me too. I need to go do some skydiving....
pull & flare,
lisa

[Designer 0]

28 ft round,Competition(US Team Para-Commander),189 Para-Foil,200 Maverick,Sabre 135,Sabre 107,Jedei 136,Jedei 120,Jedei 105,Jedei 92,Jedei 99,Swpt-Wing Jedei 97.

[Engovatov 0]

>they didn't consider the worst case scenario when they
>downsized or went to a more aggressive canopy, and
>they didn't listen to those who "preached" being
>conservative for the first couple hundred jumps.
Not arguing with the idea that it is not vise to start small, I do not think that is fair to claim “Since my friend is dead, and he loaded higher then I perceive as safe, he is dead because of the high loading”. Just a bit of flawed logic. A quick looks at the statistics of low turn deaths shows there is little correlation with experience and wind loading, and the fact that we “perceive” something as safer, does not mean it is actually safer.
My good friend would be just as dead if he had extra size above his head (to bring it down to “safe” 1.03 loading on a Sabre, from “very unsafe” 1.18 (at around 100 jumps)) He just pulled a toggle low above a hill.
People speed and die in dinky little Civic just as well as on sports cars.

[Hooknswoop 19]

If someone really wants to downsize, they very often will ask for advice until someone says "yes". Sometimes people take "no" as a personal insult to their canopy piloting abilities. "What do you mean, I am not good enough to handle a________". I think handing out canopy advice is similar to talking down students on the radio, if everything goes right, you had a good student, if anything goes wrong, you had a poor instructor. (Put 1-99 standing up in the pea-pit and you're a hero, put # 100 on the hangar and you're a zero) If you manage to convince someone that really wants to downsize that they shouldn't (because they really shouldn't) you will never truly know if you saved them from injury/death and receive zero credit for a good deed. If someone you advised not to downsize, downsizes anyway and isn't injured/killed, well then you were wrong (or at least perceived that way). If you advise against the downsize and they get hurt/killed, nobody will walk up to you and tell you were right, and if you stand up and say "I told you so>" as they carry them off in the meatwagon, you're a heartless jerk. Experienced jumpers/instructors, and high speed canopy pilots that take a stand and tell someone "no" are un-sung heroes. I can understand why one of these people that take a stand and try to help can get upset at how they treated for trying to help and don't take jokes about how they try to help others very well.
I am very selective as to who I will give canopy advice to. First criteria I look for is that they are open minded and are actually going to listen.
Hook

[airann 1]

Well, I am CLEARLY downsizing too fast.
On a Saber 150 the same one for 2 years.
So I guess I will get a damn Ziplock sandwinch bag to jump this weekend to catch up. Damn it.
Ann ~ www.AirAnn.com
Levin in RW suit.. I have pictures!!!

[Engovatov 0]

>I am very selective as to who I will give canopy advice
>to. First criteria I look for is that they are open minded
>and are actually going to listen.
>Hook
Hook, all you said is very true. I will not give a canopy advise, cause I do not know shit about them (expect for a very detailed knowledge of all the technical specs of all the skydiving equipment, but that's just because I am very curious ;-) I do not jump myself anymore.. ;(
But what I can say - perception of safety, is not safety - and there is no point in playing guessing and blame game. People are dead beacause they were skydiving, primarily, canopy choice is just a contributing factor - and you can never draw a line. People are dead beacuse they lived.
Information, what is and how it is dangerous is not is available. That's the beauty we still can make our own jugdements. Unfair reasoning and blame games do not help, in my very humble opinion.

[Deleted 0]

God this thread is huge, but I'm gonna post what I did before I read the rest and change my mind....
Don't have my log book in front of me, so this is from memory, but it's close. The jump #s might not be exact, but it was in this order at least.
S/L progression
Manta 288 19 jumps .55 Wing load
Renegade 220(?) 1 jump .72 Wing Load
Triatholon 190 2 jumps .82 Wing load
Sabre 150 1 jump 1.1 Wing load
Sabre 210 1 jump .78 Wing load
Sabre 190 21 jumps .86 Wing load
Stiletto 150 3 jumps 1.1 Wing load
The wing loadings are pretty close too, as I remember weighing myself with each new rig on.
I look at what i did now and say "Man was I stupid". I wasn't really, I was just lucky, and tell everyone else NOT to do what I did.
Rev Jim
A-39869
"It's just what I do..."

[lummy 4]

I finally bought a rig which is the Omega 180 (loaded 1.2). Before that, the smallest I would rent was a 189 (1.13) even if I could rent a 169. I chose my current main because it was very close to what I am jumping now and the price was right
Here's mine
falcon 300 6
PD260 2
PD190 3
Navigator 2
Falcon 235 3
Safire 229 2
Safire 189 2
Triathlon 210 3
Omega 225 11
Omega 189 33
OMEGA 180 2
Conjunction Junction, what's your function?

[jimmytavino 16]

Yahoo!!!.. our sport continues to amuse and amaze me
...Downsizing???? try Upsizing....
30 jumps on 28 foot 7 TU
1050 jumps on a round French Papillon
250 on a Para Flite Strato cloud 220 sq. ft.
90 jumps on a Para Flite "LITE CLOUD" 220 sq. ft.
1135 jumps on an RWChallenger 240 sq. ft. and now.......
70 jumps and counting, on a .........Performance Designs...
Spectre 210..........(my First Downsize Ever hahaha)
wing load always right around 1.0.....Upsize, Downsize,
I'll stick with the Right size............jt

[SkydiveMonkey 0]

I've gone from 288 mantas, to pd210, to Sabre 210, to Fury 220, and onto my first rig which has a Hornet 170 in it (loaded at 1.2:1).
When you participate in sporting events, its not whether you win or loose, its how drunk you get.

[Iflyme 0]

I learned on a huge Manta, too -- then, after about 35 jumps or so, bought a 210 Silhouette, loaded about 1:1. I' ve put just over a hundred jumps on it, and plan to put another couple hundred on it before I downsize.
"There's nothing new under the sun"

[wingnut 0]

just wondering this..... anybody ever seen anybody load a 288 manta or biger at 1:1???? and if you have, did they have a mod'd rig to hold the extra weight???? just wondering how big of a jumper there is out there...wouldn't it be wierd to have a jumper load a 210sq.ft. canopy at 1.4;1....... .....when we think normally of a loading like that of a sub 150 canopy.....

"i may not go to heven, i hope you go to hell"-C.C.

[Deleted 0]

Forgot to add, right in the middle of the Sabre 190 jumps....
PD 170 3 jumps .99 Wing load
PD 143R 1 jump (was supposed to be a 170 jumpRev Jim
A-39869
"It's just what I do..."

[AggieDave 6]

I load a 190 at 1.44:1 and I'm one of the 'heavier' jumpers I've met so far. Although, I know there has to be guys heavier then 245lbs w/o gear.
Bow down to live
Your Life
Head down, hide that smile
Head high got to smile

[pilotdave 0]

I made my first jump on a PD170, then moved up to a PD230 which I have most of my jumps on, then made a couple jumps on a manta 288, and finally bought a PD150 which I have 10 or 11 jumps on now. The sizes went up because I jumped at a few DZs and those were the smallest canopies each had. I had about 14 or so jumps when I used the manta and I really found the lack of control I had kinda scary. The PD230 is like a ferrari compared to it, even loaded at about .6. Whenever I downsize again, I'll probably move down to a 135 or 120 but I'm not planning to do that for a while. I'm having plenty of fun on the 150.
Dave
http://www.skydivingmovies.com

[AggieDave 6]

Instead of really downsizing, maybe you should get a few on a ZP canopy of similar size. I'm willing to bet you'll love the difference and will never go back. Bow down to live
Your Life
Head down, hide that smile
Head high got to smile

[pilotdave 0]

Actually the advice i was given before i bought my canopy was that if i went with F111, go with a 150. if i bought a ZP, go with a 135 because they're designed for higher loadings. I'd only load a 135 at about .96 (or 1.05 with my 12 lb weight vest Dave
http://www.skydivingmovies.com

[nacmacfeegle 0]

"really learning to fly a canopy before going smaller is out of fashion... I may not be fashionable, "
Anyone who has met me is probably aware of my contempt for the Tzars of fashion..
Its not just your own life .Please think about the effect of your biff on those who love you, and will probably have to pick up your pieces and care for you for a long time, should you survive a 'misjudgement'.
Cya
D

[nacmacfeegle 0]

"I'm one of the 'heavier' jumpers I've met so far"
Hey amigo ... Us big boys gotta have some fun too ya know , we all need a little fun...
I'm actually a thin person, I'm just trapped in the wrong body....
Cya
D

[Stacy 0]

tandem 3
PD 265 1
PD 235 26
Silhouette 230 3
Silhouette 210 5
Navigator 200 3
Sabre 190 12
Sabre 170 4
Falcon 175 63
Spectre 150 284
Cobalt 135 5
Crossfire 129 3
Protege 200 1
Jedei 136 46
Stiletto 135 4
Stacy
http://users.snip.net/~stacy

[fergie 0]

7 TU
PC (thought it was the only hot canopy available)
Papillion (discovered PC wasn't all there was)
Thunderbow (canopy with 3 corners was intriguing)
Strato Star, ring-n-ropes, 180 (4 corners finally came out)
Strato Star, with a new fangled thing - a slider, 180
Strato Cloud, 230
Strato Cloud, 230
Para Sled, 180
Cruisair, 220 or so
Pegasus, 220
Raven 3 (only lasted 3 jumps - unintentional water landing and it sank ... expensive jump - don't always trust the spotter - especially when he dumps out of the formation at 4000' and ends up being the only one in the formation that stays dry after landing!!)
Raven 3, 250 or so (replaced the previous one)
Sabre 190
Spectre 190
So what if I'm heavier than some ... Spectre loaded around 1.3 or so. Getting older and don't feel need for a pocket-rocket. So will probably stay around 190 until technology allows me to downsive and not risk femurs and ankles. Boring? Nah, I'm happy

[fonz 0]

Quote

What are other jumpers downsizing progression?

jumps 1-15: Navigator 240 (loading 0.7)
jump 16: Navigator 220 (loading 0.8)
jump 17: Navigator 240 (loading 0.7)
jump 18+: Sabre 170 (loading 1.0)
Alphons
http://www.liacs.nl/~avwerven/skydive

[wlie 0]

190 lbs
1 - 57 SkyMaster 290
58 - 65 PD 210
66 - 67 Silhouette 210
68 - 74 Silhouette 190
Tomorrow:
75 - 77? Silhouette 190
Saturday:
78? - Diablo 170
Plus a case of beer when I jump my first rig for the first time.

[slotperfect 7]

(Not counting all the rounds)
MT1-X
XL Cloud
Cruiselite XL
Raider
Startrac II
Startrac I
Falcon 265
Falcon 235
Silhouette 230
Silhouette 210
I have countless onesy-twosy jumps on lots of other stuff, but that was my main progression. Great question!
Respectfully,
SP

[lazerq3 0]

With a 170 lb exit weight!
1-7.... NAV 240
8-15... SPECTRA 190
16... SABER 170
17-69... PD 170
70-71.....SAFIRE 169
72-73....CROSSFIRE 169 !!!! (ouch)
74-80....HORNET 150!!! SWEET ASS CANOPY!!!!
jason