GLIDEANGLE 1 #1 April 2, 2007 In the hope that someone can avoid duplicating my stupid moment (one of several stupid moments yesterday): After a frustrating freefall I was happily under canopy. When I deployed my brakes I promptly found that I had failed to keep my thumb clear of the stored brake lines and had my thumb very nicely tangled in the line. I had a single half hitch around my thumb below the guide ring. The tension on the line was keeping the loop tight on my thumb. It took only a few seconds to clear.... but I can imagine several scenarios where this would not be a happy event. Lessons learned: 1. Don't let a poor stage of a jump pollute my emotions for the next stage... don't let a poor exit distract me from my freefall work, don't let poor freefall work distract me from canopy work, don't let poor canopy navigation distract me from a safe landing, don't let a poor landing distract me from keeping my head on a swivel while on the ground in the landing area. 2. Keep my damn thumbs clear when deploying my brakes. I figure that the easiest way to do that is to grasp the brakes with all four fingers and my thumb, rather than just hooking the brakes with my fingers. All in all, I didn't hurt anyone else, I didn't hurt my self. Tangental comment: My coach is very patient! May you be so lucky. Take Care.The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peregrinerose 0 #2 April 2, 2007 I did the same thing Saturday, so it's just a stupid trick not just a stupid newbie trick But good lessons. Add to it to stow the brake line better so it's harder to catch your thumb in the loop. Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Booster_MPS 0 #3 April 2, 2007 Hey Glide, the same thing happened to me a month or so ago and it can be a bit un-nerving for sure. Certainly not something that you want to chop for but it was a pain for me to clear. In my situation, the brake line caught the tip of my glove and I was simply caught. I could turn and flare so my choice was to fly it in (it actually cleared during my landing flare). I now consciously look at my toggles and ensure that I have the tips of my fingers firmly in each toggle before releasing my canopy into full flight – I want to grab nothing but the toggle. Also as peregrinrose mentioned, I am more anal about stowing brake line. I will never fly with it unstowed. Overall the even taught me a lot about attention to detail and the need for making deliberate well considered actions about any motion, action or movement under canopy and also in free fall. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 5 #4 April 2, 2007 when you stow you brakes, do you not use a rubber band to stow excess at the slinks? or have some sort of keeper for the excess? I can see this happening, I guess, but the way I stow (keepers on one rig, small rubber bands on another) my excess is stowed to the inside and above where I grab my toggles, so my hands could never get caught. Definitely doesn't sound like a dull moment if it happens to you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Booster_MPS 0 #5 April 2, 2007 There is a keeper on the other side of the riser, but this was rental gear and they were not stowed by the previous person. My gear is on the way so this won't be a problem for much longer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kkeenan 14 #6 April 2, 2007 It sounds relatively harmless, but a jumper was killed some years ago by this very thing. He had on heavy gloves, which caught in the steering line. I don't recall all of the details, but that is how the chain of events started, leading to a fatality._____________________________________ Dude, you are so awesome... Can I be on your ash jump ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freakflyer9999 1 #7 April 2, 2007 QuoteIt sounds relatively harmless, but a jumper was killed some years ago by this very thing. He had on heavy gloves, which caught in the steering line. I don't recall all of the details, but that is how the chain of events started, leading to a fatality. There were a couple of incidents in a very short time (Jan 99) that involved heavy gloves getting caught in the brake lines. One of these was my best friend who was wearing neoprene gloves. The resulting spin either caused him to become unconscious or he experienced another medical condition that caused him to loose consiousness. Either way, his death was the result. His glove was still caught in the brake line when examined by DZ staff. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AFFI 0 #8 April 2, 2007 QuoteThere were a couple of incidents in a very short time (Jan 99) that involved heavy gloves getting caught in the brake lines. Were people wanting to "Ban" gloves at the time?Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat… Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freakflyer9999 1 #9 April 3, 2007 QuoteQuoteThere were a couple of incidents in a very short time (Jan 99) that involved heavy gloves getting caught in the brake lines. Were people wanting to "Ban" gloves at the time? No, but I guess we should have banned 3600 degree turns, since he did at least that many spirals before hitting the ground. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AFFI 0 #10 April 3, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteThere were a couple of incidents in a very short time (Jan 99) that involved heavy gloves getting caught in the brake lines. Were people wanting to "Ban" gloves at the time? No, but I guess we should have banned 3600 degree turns, since he did at least that many spirals before hitting the ground. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jurgencamps 0 #11 April 3, 2007 Let's assume it was your left thumb. 1. Watch for other traffic. 2. Put the righthand toggle in your mouth to keep flying straight. 3. Pull down the lefthand toggle and grab with your right hand all the lines just above the left rearriser. 4. Now there is no more tension on your left toggle and you can free your thumb (finger) now. Jurgen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chanti 0 #12 April 3, 2007 I did the same thing once and it also wrapped around my glove which was a little big for me at the time. I couldn't free my finger but fortunately I was flying a big docile square back then, so a little input on the other toggle kept me flying straight and i landed ok. Now I have gloves that fit me properly and I always stow the excess brake line in the keeper. -Chanti- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lowie 0 #13 April 3, 2007 IMHO wouldnt it be better to use your hook knife to cut the offending brake line and land on rears than to cutaway and risk losing a thumb or worse - entangle the reserve on a trailing main Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kkeenan 14 #14 April 3, 2007 QuoteIMHO wouldnt it be better to use your hook knife to cut the offending brake line and land on rears than to cutaway and risk losing a thumb or worse - entangle the reserve on a trailing main Yes. Cutting away with the brake line tied to your hand can lead to really bad problems. If you can't get it loose under canopy, you're damn sure not going to do any better in freefall. I once cut a steering line that had bound up in a knot at the keeper ring. Luckily, my hand wasn't in it. Steering line repair is way easier than a reserve repack. Kevin_____________________________________ Dude, you are so awesome... Can I be on your ash jump ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RandomLemming 0 #15 April 3, 2007 Seriously all, be very careful with catching your fingers in lines. I wouldn't want to cutaway unless I had no other way out, I'd cut the line about the entangled digit if I could, and THEN cutaway if cutting the line had caused one of the three S's to no longer be valid. My wife had a serious accident and lost half of her thumb while mooring a boat 2 years ago. Before that, I never would have believed what ropes were capable of, and the lines we use in canopies are far finer / more likely to cut. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 2 #16 April 3, 2007 I managed something similar on the 2006 960-jumper mass jump in Bangkok. Got my wrist stuck in my brakeline somehow, the triple risers were wrapped in there too, generally a mess. Couldn't untangle myself, didn't really want to cut it up - it was a borrowed rig, and if I moved my arm down it did flare, and heck it was a Spectre and there was some wind, so I landed it like that. No problem except for the fact that I had to fly in light brakes all the time when I was SUPPOSED to do some proximity flying for pics. Well I'm on one pic and the brakeline problem doesn't even show Tip: if you're going to be stupid and get stuff caught in your brakelines, a demo jump with loads of traffic isn't the most suitable time ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jurgencamps 0 #17 April 5, 2007 QuoteIMHO wouldnt it be better to use your hook knife to cut the offending brake line and land on rears than to cutaway and risk losing a thumb or worse - entangle the reserve on a trailing main See my post, no need to cut the brakeline. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Baksteen 84 #18 April 5, 2007 QuoteQuoteIMHO wouldnt it be better to use your hook knife to cut the offending brake line and land on rears than to cutaway and risk losing a thumb or worse - entangle the reserve on a trailing main See my post, no need to cut the brakeline. Besides, would you really advise a rookie like myself and the original poster to try and land on rears?"That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport." ~mom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jurgencamps 0 #19 April 5, 2007 QuoteBesides, would you really advise a rookie like myself and the original poster to try and land on rears? Where do I say that you have to land on your rears? I only explain how to free your thumb, finger, ... (learned by experience ) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #20 April 5, 2007 QuoteBesides, would you really advise a rookie like myself and the original poster to try and land on rears? Have you ever tried to land on rears? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Baksteen 84 #21 April 5, 2007 QuoteWhere do I say that you have to land on your rears? I only explain how to free your thumb, finger, ... (learned by experience ) I quoted you to expand on your point while replying to Lowie :) For a further explanation see my sig And the reason I said that was that i am not confident about how my chte reacts when I touch my rears instead of the steering lines, let alone what happens when I flare that way. For now, I will not touch my rears unless very high up. If my chute doesn't react the way I thought it would, I'll still have time to cut away if in doubt."That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport." ~mom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 5 #22 April 5, 2007 QuoteQuoteWhere do I say that you have to land on your rears? I only explain how to free your thumb, finger, ... (learned by experience ) I quoted you to expand on your point while replying to Lowie :) For a further explanation see my sig And the reason I said that was that i am not confident about how my chte reacts when I touch my rears instead of the steering lines, let alone what happens when I flare that way. For now, I will not touch my rears unless very high up. If my chute doesn't react the way I thought it would, I'll still have time to cut away if in doubt. If you want to achieve your A license you'll need to get confident in how your rear risers behave when you start pulling on them, as it's a requirement to do turns with rear-risers/no brakes in order to pass your A. You may need this ability when someone opens too close to you or you open too close to them, and you're heading towards each other. no time for brakes.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brianfry713 0 #23 April 5, 2007 http://www.performancedesigns.com/docs/ControlSysMalf.PDF I've had my steering lines entangle with my hands or the toggles several times, but I've always been able to clear it before my hard deck. I sometimes put one arm through the good toggle so I can keep the wing level while I use both hands to fix the problem. I would cut a brake line before cutting away, but that depends on the situation. This is one reason to always unstow your toggles and do a control check above your minimum cutaway altitude. I would advise all jumpers, newbies and experienced, to experiment with their rear risers and land using them in an emergency. If you don't know what a rear risers does, talk to an instructor and experiment up high. To cutaway or not if you had a toggle release from the line at a safe altitude is your decision. I would probably land on one toggle and a rear riser in that situation with my main canopy. If a line releases from the toggle at a low altitude, you'll have no choice but to use the rear riser to get a soft landing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 2 #24 April 6, 2007 Did you do these yet? http://www.parachute.nl/fileadmin/knvvlpa_upload/pdf/KNVvL_oefenprogramma_Canopy_Control.pdf ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kkeenan 14 #25 April 6, 2007 Quote ...I would probably land on one toggle and a rear riser in that situation with my main canopy. If you've lost one steering line, and are landing that way, don't use the remaining steering line and the other rear riser to flare. It's better to use both rears if that's how you're landing, so that you get a symetrical flare. kevin_____________________________________ Dude, you are so awesome... Can I be on your ash jump ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
