Pilot 188 zpx versus Pilot 168 non zpx

[guppykf 0]

I have two questions:
1. What is the pack volume differential between the Pilot 188 zpx versus the Pilot 168 -non zpx. Yes, I've checked aerodyne's website and they dont have the zpx pack volumes on their site.

2. When you purchase a used main does it typically include the risers or simply the canopy with slider? I am under the impression the pilot chute isn't included as well..right?

THRIVING IN MY DASH!!

[mattjw916 2]

You can probably find the answer to #1 by searching.

Risers and PC/d-bag are rig parts and generally not included. Some people offer risers for an extra fee. New canopies usually come with links but this is a cheap wear item so you should replace used ones unless they are cleared by a rigger as good even if they are included. Replace metal rapide links with new soft ones as well. Slider should always come with canopy.

Risers (esp mini ones) and PCs are also wear items so replace as needed. Before they fail. ;)

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[ChuckMartin 0]

http://www.flyaerodyne.com/zpx.asp

They say 17% smaller.

[guppykf 0]

I guess that's why I'm confused.

normal pilot 188 = 440 cu.in x.17 to change to zpx (74.8) = 365.2 cu. in

normal pilot 168 (non zpx) = 416 cu. in.

So does that mean that the 188 zpx actually packs smaller than the 168 zp?

If that logic applies than the 168 zpx would pack smaller than a pilot 117..that just doesn't sound correct.

THRIVING IN MY DASH!!

[sundevil777 102]

guppykf

I guess that's why I'm confused.

normal pilot 188 = 440 cu.in x.17 to change to zpx (74.8) = 365.2 cu. in

normal pilot 168 (non zpx) = 416 cu. in.

So does that mean that the 188 zpx actually packs smaller than the 168 zp?

If that logic applies than the 168 zpx would pack smaller than a pilot 117..that just doesn't sound correct.

Perhaps the difference is that the fabric is 17% less pack volume, but there is a lot to the pack volume of a canopy that is not from the basic fabric itself.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[Keithor 0]

mattjw916

You can probably find the answer to #1 by searching.

Risers and PC/d-bag are rig parts and generally not included. Some people offer risers for an extra fee. New canopies usually come with links but this is a cheap wear item so you should replace used ones unless they are cleared by a rigger as good even if they are included. Replace metal rapide links with new soft ones as well. Slider should always come with canopy.

Risers (esp mini ones) and PCs are also wear items so replace as needed. Before they fail. ;)

Not trying to discredit the response, however there are certain components that are NOT compatible with others.

Soft links are great but not always something that can be changed out. Your rigger should a)know, or b) know where to look to find out if certain things will work from one manufacturer to another. Reserve PD soft links or "Slinks" are not approved for use with all manufacturers. Im sure they will work, but wont meet TSO regs. Just something to keep in mind.

Take the canopy to your rigger and ask about changing components.

[mjosparky 4]

Keithor

***You can probably find the answer to #1 by searching.

Risers and PC/d-bag are rig parts and generally not included. Some people offer risers for an extra fee. New canopies usually come with links but this is a cheap wear item so you should replace used ones unless they are cleared by a rigger as good even if they are included. Replace metal rapide links with new soft ones as well. Slider should always come with canopy.

Risers (esp mini ones) and PCs are also wear items so replace as needed. Before they fail. ;)

Not trying to discredit the response, however there are certain components that are NOT compatible with others.

Soft links are great but not always something that can be changed out. Your rigger should a)know, or b) know where to look to find out if certain things will work from one manufacturer to another. Reserve PD soft links or "Slinks" are not approved for use with all manufacturers. Im sure they will work, but wont meet TSO regs. Just something to keep in mind.

Take the canopy to your rigger and ask about changing components.

Both PD and Aerodyne have TSO’s soft links.

There is no need to replace SS Rapide Links other than for the "cool" factor. I have never heard of one breaking but know of a couple times soft links have failed.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[mattjw916 2]

Quote

There is no need to replace SS Rapide Links other than for the "cool" factor. I have never heard of one breaking but know of a couple times soft links have failed.

Not sure if trolling....

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[mjosparky 4]

mattjw916

Quote

There is no need to replace SS Rapide Links other than for the "cool" factor. I have never heard of one breaking but know of a couple times soft links have failed.

Not sure if trolling....

Not trolling......just adding to the discussion.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[mattjw916 2]

http://parachutistonline.com/safety_training/ask_a_rigger/soft-links-regular-links

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[DivingWombat 0]

guppykf

I guess that's why I'm confused.

normal pilot 188 = 440 cu.in x.17 to change to zpx (74.8) = 365.2 cu. in

normal pilot 168 (non zpx) = 416 cu. in.

So does that mean that the 188 zpx actually packs smaller than the 168 zp?

If that logic applies than the 168 zpx would pack smaller than a pilot 117..that just doesn't sound correct.

For sure a Pilot 188zpx packs smaller than a 168zp. This is why my 188zpx fits into a rig built for 132-150sf.

Do your own calculations and you might realize that a 168zpx packs like a 140zp

[guppykf 0]

that's what I did and it didnt appear to be right. If there isnt a chart anywhere of the packing volume for the ZPX; how does one know if it will be too loose in their container?

THRIVING IN MY DASH!!

[ChuckMartin 0]

guppykf

If that logic applies than the 168 zpx would pack smaller than a pilot 117..that just doesn't sound correct.

168*.83~140
Not sure how you got 117.

Also remember the size of your lines have a lot to do with it also.

[ChuckMartin 0]

guppykf

that's what I did and it didnt appear to be right. If there isnt a chart anywhere of the packing volume for the ZPX; how does one know if it will be too loose in their container?

You call the company that made your container and ask. Or ask a rigger, or a dealer, or you do a little math, or ask on here and have people do the math for you haha.

http://www.performancedesigns.com/docs/packvol.pdf
This might help you a little bit too.

[freekflyguy 0]

ChuckMartin

***If that logic applies than the 168 zpx would pack smaller than a pilot 117..that just doesn't sound correct.

168*.83~140
Not sure how you got 117.

Also remember the size of your lines have a lot to do with it also.

The mistake you are making is thinking its 17% of pack volume is equal to 17% of canopy size, and it isn't.

One of my jumpers couldn't figure our why the Pilot 150 ZPX she brought was too small for the container that was made for a Pilot 150, I showed her the math on pack volume and not canopy size but still had physically to prove to her that the 150 ZPX packed as small as a stiletto 120.

It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice.

[mjosparky 4]

mattjw916

http://parachutistonline.com/safety_training/ask_a_rigger/soft-links-regular-links

Well of course PD is going to prefer the Slinks over other methods. They make and sell them. I should have said that I have never heard of a Rapide like fail that was properly installed. Some say the slinks are stronger, I don’t know. I have never tested them and have not seen any test results. If they are installed correctly and checked once in awhile they will outlast the rig.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[miell 0]

Hi,
I have owned both of those canopies. I packed them in a Mirage G3 M4 and I found the 168 harder to get in the bag than the 188 ZPX.

[guppykf 0]

thank you!

THRIVING IN MY DASH!!

[ChuckMartin 0]

freekflyguy

******If that logic applies than the 168 zpx would pack smaller than a pilot 117..that just doesn't sound correct.

168*.83~140
Not sure how you got 117.

Also remember the size of your lines have a lot to do with it also.

The mistake you are making is thinking its 17% of pack volume is equal to 17% of canopy size, and it isn't.

One of my jumpers couldn't figure our why the Pilot 150 ZPX she brought was too small for the container that was made for a Pilot 150, I showed her the math on pack volume and not canopy size but still had physically to prove to her that the 150 ZPX packed as small as a stiletto 120.

Hmm true, thanks for pointing that out. Until they come out and say what the pack volume is of their ZPX canopies are I think people will still not really know. No way does a 168 pack smaller then a 117. They say the material itself is 10 thinner so i'm not sure how that comes out to 17% smaller. Lines, thread, slider, reinforcement tape, and dead space in the pack job is still all the same weather it zp or zpx and that stuff comes into play in pack volume.

[ljwobker 2]

new canopies from Aerodyne are shipped with their soft links, so if you're buying one used from someone you should make sure they are included. The advice above to check them for wear before installing is always a good idea.

Risers are part of the container/harness system and are generally NOT included with a main purchase, but you can ask.

One thing to request is that the seller keep the links on the canopy and use a "continuity card" when shipping - this will keep the line groups together and save whoever does the reassembly a lot of time and headache.