Icarus021 0 #1 March 22, 2002 I am trying to sell my Icarus Safire 149 and haven't had much luck. I was just curious as to other peoples thoughts about this canopy.blues skies and go big. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Muenkel 0 #2 March 22, 2002 It sucks. But don't listen to me I have never tried one.Skydivers...they're just plain cool!Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdrew20012001 0 #3 March 22, 2002 I jumped one a couple of months ago, seeing how I was jumping a triatholon 160 at the time I had no problem and kinda liked it. I think if you really wanted to get crazy you'd need to load the piss out of it. I ended up buying a small stilletto instead and, other than kinda wacky openings, really like it. I'd try to sell it to the same sort of person that would buy a saber 2, first canopy lightly loaded or second canopy heavily loaded.Drewfus McDoofus Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #4 March 22, 2002 Private Message me and I'll see if your price is too high or something.I wish you would step back from that ledge my friend... ~3EB Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TALONSKY 0 #5 March 22, 2002 I think Safires are a great canopy. I have a169 wing loaded at 1.5 and love it (yes I am a fat ass). Talking to people at my DZ and seeing responses here, the Safire seems to have a little bit of a bad rap. As far as price goes (not knowing how much you want for it) to me anyway saving a couple hundred off of new would not interest me in a used canopy but saving 400 plus would. Blue SkiesKirk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #6 March 22, 2002 Yeah... I've looked at the Ad and gave him my opinion. I'm thinking $1100 is too much for one that has 200+ jumps on it.I wish you would step back from that ledge my friend... ~3EB Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freaksister 0 #7 March 22, 2002 You should get the brake line modification on it too, so its easier to flare. Everyone who has had it done that I've met says its a real improvement. See your rigger.SisCan you Trip like I do? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skycat 0 #8 March 22, 2002 QuoteSee your rigger.Actually see hooknswoop, he is the one who designed it, and only one Icarus has given the ok to do it.You can read more about it at http://www.jumpergirl.com/safire.html there is a contact form there so you can reach him with questions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freaksister 0 #9 March 22, 2002 Yeah, see hooknswoop. Sorry Cat. Wasn't sure on who to contact for that thing. It works!!! try it.SisCan you Trip like I do? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cyberskydive 0 #10 March 22, 2002 I have a larger safire, 219. (6'2" 230lbs) and its a decent canopy. I have never had problems landing this one, has original brake-line configuration, and it's still relatively new (less than 300 jumps). it opens nice, flies well, and if I were going to get a 150 i'd at leat demo one-loloh yeah - I would feel comfortable landing this canopy in someone back yard ;)but then theres the HEATWAVE! -lol.....there is no spoon--------------------Another place to play Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Engovatov 0 #11 March 22, 2002 If it is $1100 - it is kinda steep - I think I got mine around $1300 new.. and at this numbers it is up for a reline soon, if it is Vectran, so a lineset price at least should be deducted ($200?), plus - 300 jumps is about 20% of the resourse.., that's about $300.. So it is $800 then..Otherwise Safires are great, no problems with them. Some people have other preferences, some people do not know about them, that's about it.. If you jump it - why are you asking? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #12 March 22, 2002 Sounds like about $800 would be reasonable...IMHO"ahhhhoo...the little guy hasn't done anything yet and you know its going to be good..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lazerq3 0 #13 March 23, 2002 Hey I can vouch for this canopy.....I've seen it fly . the guy selling it jumps at my DZ.....Real good guy too (raking some browny points). I just think its all in the price...with the way competition is out there its all about who's got the best deal and the right price!!! You may have to play around with it aa little till you get some hits but it will go eventually! Seeya at the DZjason Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,068 #14 March 23, 2002 Problem with Safires (and most Icarus canopies) is that they're inconsistent. Some open great, some open hard. Some land really well, some need the mod. Some open on heading consistently, some don't. They are unlike PD canopies, which sometimes had nasty characteristics (the early Sabres opened hard as a rule) but which were very consistent canopy to canopy.Anyway, as a buyer I'd worry about getting a "bad" one. (Note that I actually jump a Safire 129, so I don't dislike them.)-bill von Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Engovatov 0 #15 March 23, 2002 >Problem with Safires (and most Icarus canopies) is that they're inconsistent.Since the computer program that does the scaling and cutting ought to be the same to millimeter accuracy - is it a problem of PA manufacturing? (They sew mine). What else could it be? Or are they so sufficiently different in behavior that people evaluating them are utterly confused and cannot verbalize their opinion in a consistent way? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,068 #16 March 23, 2002 >Since the computer program that does the scaling and cutting ought to be the> same to millimeter accuracy - is it a problem of PA manufacturing? As they have been manufactured in three different places, I would bet it's due to inconsistencies in the manufacturing process.-bill von Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Engovatov 0 #17 March 23, 2002 >As they have been manufactured in three different places, I would bet it's due to inconsistencies in the manufacturing process.What would it be? People not sewing along the lines? What is involved in the "process" besides cutting the fabric with a computer controlled hot knife and sewing it along the dotted line that may affect flying characteristics ?.. I have not heard about anybody complaining about Safire openings though.. Flare has a difference in opinions (I like it) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,068 #18 March 23, 2002 >What would it be? People not sewing along the lines? There is a _lot_ more to building canopies than "sewing along the lines." This isn't a dress - it's a 3D shape where small details (puckering of fabric in stitching near nose, thread tension, order of assembly) makes a big difference. Take a look at some older canopies (old Ravens come to mind) and compare the quality of stitching to a modern Sabre II.-bill von Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,068 #19 March 23, 2002 >I have not heard about anybody complaining about Safire openings though.Let me be the first then. My Safire 129 needed a small pocket to get good openings. It's fine now.-bill von Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cyberskydive 0 #20 March 23, 2002 QuoteOr are they so sufficiently different in behavior now I have a seen one case of this, both canopies being from the same location......there is no spoon--------------------Another place to play Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Engovatov 0 #21 March 23, 2002 >There is a _lot_ more to building canopies than "sewing> along the lines." This isn't a dress - it's a 3D shape> where small details (puckering of fabric in stitching> near nose, thread tension, order of assembly) makes a> big difference. Take a look at some older canopies >(old Ravens come to mind) and compare the quality of > stitching to a modern Sabre II.That's right - my question was - how is it related to the design, as opposed to the manufacturing. Quality of stitching will not change aerodynamics, presumably, but integrity. For early Dash-M with type III tape has lines falling off is unrelated to whether they will all fly the same.. Is not it? While having ribs of different size, with the best possible stitching, WILL cause problems - but that hardly will be a design flaw, like choosing weak tape..So the Q is: Is it design (like weak tape), or manufacturing (like ribs of different size, or wrong lineset attached - which is definitly not what is on design spec..)As for openings - maybe.. But it is usually rather subjective quality as well.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,068 #22 March 23, 2002 >Quality of stitching will not change aerodynamics, presumably, but integrity. Not sure I agree with that. If you can't run a straight stitch, the airfoil will not be consistent. If you don't have good control of thread tension, seams will pucker and affect both aerodynamics and canopy dimensions.>As for openings - maybe.. But it is usually rather subjective quality as well.. Agreed. But I can compare to other canopies, and it was hard relative to every unmodified Triathalon I've ever jumped (for example.)-bill von Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Engovatov 0 #23 March 23, 2002 >If you can't run a straight stitch, the airfoil will not be consistent.Yeah - but this will have nothing to do with the DESIGN of Safire, would not it? It will affect any other canopy made by a particular factory, so if they where sewing Sabre2 for example, it will suffer from the same problem. Would not it? I am just curious - understanding the issues involved will certainly affect my future purchase decisions..My Safire opened just beautifully - progressively and smooth. And I am a lousy packer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #24 March 23, 2002 QuoteYeah - but this will have nothing to do with the DESIGN of Safire,I think Bill made it quite clear he was objecting to manufacturing issues, not design issues.I think he also made it quite clear he like the overall design of the safire._AmICQ: 5578907MSN Messenger: andrewdmetcalfe at hotmail dot com AIM: andrewdmetcalfeYahoo IM: ametcalf_1999 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cyberskydive 0 #25 March 23, 2002 anyone ever heard of the safire "buffering" alot in stronger winds? Or breathing alot making it get a little washy? Kinda like you can see the icarus tandems breath and pop?I heard mention that the crossports are too big, on all icarus canopies, causing behavior like this...does anyone share this opinion or has anyone heard others who share this opinion?.....there is no spoon--------------------Another place to play Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
