Goofy Chest strap idea

[councilman24 37]

Hardware wasn't and isn't produced under a TSO. Until they were cancelled in 1998 traditional hardware was produced under military specifications. Since then PIA has maintained, updated and sold specifications for traditional hardware and materials. Most of the major manufacturers as well as Natick and other military members attend PIA spec committee meetings 3 times a year and work very hard on all of these specs AND testing standards for hardware and materials. And oddly enough even though they are PIA specs under PIA control Natick still has to or gets to sign of on traditional specs revisions. Non-traditional hardware is produced under a PIA spec that gives general guidelines and testing procedure. PIA-H-7195B You'll see commercial hardware, 3 rings, etc. That's not to say that everyone uses spec hardware.

This is one example of PIA members working very hard to maintain the quality and integrity of parachute supplies. And these are competitors working to maintain the industry.

I've looked at the cobra hardware on hunting safety harnesses and it's interesting and seems well built. Does anyone know what industry or use it comes from initially?

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[riggerrob 643]

That seat-belt buckle was probably manufactured under Federal Aviation Administration Technical Standard Order C22 or Canadian MOtor Vehicle Safety Standards, which equal the same quality as TSO C23 (parachutes).

Sure, we could get in to a long a rowdy brawl about whether aviation standards are better than automotive standards, but when you consider how few automobile seat-belts are reacalled, and how few people die because of faulty seat-belts, the difference is insignificant.

The next challenge is to determine if the seat0-belt buckle is COMPATIBLE with parachute harnesses ... first of all, most seat-belt webbing is 2 inches wide.

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

riggerrob

That seat-belt buckle was probably manufactured under Federal Aviation Administration Technical Standard Order C22 or Canadian MOtor Vehicle Safety Standards, which equal the same quality as TSO C23 (parachutes).

Sure, we could get in to a long a rowdy brawl about whether aviation standards are better than automotive standards, but when you consider how few automobile seat-belts are reacalled, and how few people die because of faulty seat-belts, the difference is insignificant.

The next challenge is to determine if the seat0-belt buckle is COMPATIBLE with parachute harnesses ... first of all, most seat-belt webbing is 2 inches wide.

Well, from the general phrasing of the OP, it sounded more like a miniature buckle that looked like a real seat belt buckle.

If so, I know exactly what he meant, because I've seen one on a dog collar. About the same size webbing as our chest harnesses. Not the full 2" wide one for car or airplane belts.

I agree that real buckles are probably strong/reliable enough to be used (barring other objections), but these aren't those, they are replicas. Are they well made enough for our needs? Or are they like the "Not to be used for climbing" carbiners you see in the convenience stores?

I think the hardware could easily meet the standards, but proving it could get complicated (expensive).

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[pchapman 279]

councilman24

I've looked at the cobra hardware[...] Does anyone know what industry or use it comes from initially?

On the Cobra buckle subject, rather than the car seatbelt buckle subject that is the main one in this thread:

Cobra buckles are used in paragliding and come from Austialpin, who I think started with climbing hardware but branched into general rope work and paragliding. Patented mechanism, have some certifications available, made of 7075 alu and are more compact than other double click buckles I've seen, that use steel plates. Interestingly, for the applications they plan for, the buckles are designed NOT to release under higher load.

Plenty of english language reading at:http://www.austrialpin.net/products/cobra/

[mjosparky 4]

No hardware is TSO’d until it is tested as part of a harness/container system or in the case of connector links test with a canopy.

Manufactures are free to test with any hardware/materials they want. If they pass all required tests they then must maintain tractability of all outsourced materials and in house test of these materials. (See Part 21.137 Quality system.)

There is much more to a TSO then just testing.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[JerryBaumchen 1,377]

Hi ChrisD,

Once again, you have no idea of what you are talking about.

JerryBaumchen

[JerryBaumchen 1,377]

Hi Mike,

Quote

No hardware is TSO’d until it is tested as part of a harness/container system or in the case of connector links test with a canopy.

^^^^^^ This.

JerryBaumchen

[mjosparky 4]

JerryBaumchen

Hi Mike,

Quote

No hardware is TSO’d until it is tested as part of a harness/container system or in the case of connector links test with a canopy.

^^^^^^ This.

JerryBaumchen

Thanks Jerry........

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[ChrisD 0]

JerryBaumchen

Hi ChrisD,

Once again, you have no idea of what you are talking about.

JerryBaumchen

Thanks for the PA,...

I was responding to this, the OP:

Quote

i don't know,,,discuss,,carve it up,,flame it , destroy it...Cool

Did you get out of the wrong side of the bed this morning???

THIS WAS MY POINT:

Quote

I wish more people would just take a greater interest in some of this stuff, hold it in your hand, do you know what to look for, is the chrome plating flaking, does it look cheep? Stuff like that, ask someone else, my point being just don't trust some paperwork or standard, there's lots of great hardware out there without paperwork but can you tell the difference??? Who's interests are the players interested in? Your idea about the goofy'ness of this idea is perhaps a great idea after all,... if it promotes some discussion about being more gear aware!!! Thanks for the question!

And you have an issue with that?????

Is there something wrong with being more gear aware, is that the exclusive prevue of just a few of you that obviously can't be bothered to explain for the enlightenment of more than a handful of abusive people here??? Please tell me where or how I could do better, cause this incessant bickering and expertey opinion thing, more than a few of you have got going on isn't do-ing anything for the multitude of newbies out there that your all apparently trying to protect.
C

But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

[mjosparky 4]

ChrisD

***Hi ChrisD,

Once again, you have no idea of what you are talking about.

JerryBaumchen

Thanks for the PA,...

I was responding to this, the OP:

Quote

i don't know,,,discuss,,carve it up,,flame it , destroy it...Cool

Did you get out of the wrong side of the bed this morning???

THIS WAS MY POINT:

Quote

I wish more people would just take a greater interest in some of this stuff, hold it in your hand, do you know what to look for, is the chrome plating flaking, does it look cheep? Stuff like that, ask someone else, my point being just don't trust some paperwork or standard, there's lots of great hardware out there without paperwork but can you tell the difference??? Who's interests are the players interested in? Your idea about the goofy'ness of this idea is perhaps a great idea after all,... if it promotes some discussion about being more gear aware!!! Thanks for the question!

And you have an issue with that?????

Is there something wrong with being more gear aware, is that the exclusive prevue of just a few of you that obviously can't be bothered to explain for the enlightenment of more than a handful of abusive people here??? Please tell me where or how I could do better, cause this incessant bickering and expertey opinion thing, more than a few of you have got going on isn't do-ing anything for the multitude of newbies out there that your all apparently trying to protect.
C

You are starting to slip back to your old ways…..and you were doing so good.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[JerryBaumchen 1,377]

Hi Chris,

Quote

THIS WAS MY POINT:



Quote:
.

I wish more people would just take a greater interest in some of this stuff, hold it in your hand, do you know what to look for, is the chrome plating flaking, does it look cheep? Stuff like that, ask someone else, my point being just don't trust some paperwork or standard, there's lots of great hardware out there without paperwork but can you tell the difference??? Who's interests are the players interested in? Your idea about the goofy'ness of this idea is perhaps a great idea after all,... if it promotes some discussion about being more gear aware!!! Thanks for the question!

And you have an issue with that?????

Nope, it was when you went on and on about how you have visited a few mfrs and they have this great QC Program.

1. One of the largest mfrs of sport gear in this country once built and mis-marked a whole bunch of reserve pilot chutes. I called them and they said that they had made a mistake. I don't know how you make a mistake in ordering a stamp with the wrong info; and then let it get through QC.

2. One of the largest mfrs of sport gear in this country once built a rig for a guy; when he received, he called the mfr and told them that they had not built it to the colors that he ordered. They talked with him and told him that they had built a blue w/black trim, as he ordered. He told them it was a solid black rig. They checked every inspection/production record that they had, and all of them said it was a blue w/black trim. He sent them the rig; guess what? It was a solid black rig.

3. One of the largest mfrs of sport gear in this country once built a rig in which they never sewed the reserve loops at the top of the four reserve risers. They had been hot-glued but never sewn up. And the rig had been packed three times before it was noticed.

So much for a QC Program. They are only as good as their implementation.

JerryBaumchen

[firemedic 7]

3. One of the largest mfrs of sport gear in this country once built a rig in which they never sewed the reserve loops at the top of the four reserve risers. They had been hot-glued but never sewn up. And the rig had been packed three times before it was noticed.



OMG Please tell me you are joking

[RiggerLee 61]

Nope. We've all seen shit like that.

Lee

Lee
lee@velocitysportswear.com
www.velocitysportswear.com

[mjosparky 4]

Quote

Lets talk about welded rings in comparison to forged rings. Lets talk about old military specifications, which most people can't even find anymore as compared to the boating industry, which is where the majority of our hardware comes from.

They can be found, you just have to look for them.

http://mil-spec.tpub.com/

I think if you find that this hardware did not come from the boating industry. I can only think of a couple of items that were adapted from other sources.

http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp55/mjosparky/Skydiving/Harness_Hardware_00.jpg

Quote

I spend my time thinking how to remove as much hardware from design as possible, if I can remove just one grommet from a rig, and also improve reliability and performance, as well as safety, then that is a goal,...

We both know that is bull shit. You have to understand design parameters needed for a system to work. And you don’t.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[mjosparky 4]

RiggerLee

Nope. We've all seen shit like that.

Lee

And that is some scary shit.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[firemedic 7]

mjosparky

***Nope. We've all seen shit like that.

Lee

And that is some scary shit.

Sparky

That sends chills down my spine.